Dreamweaver worth the cost?

[Faithless]

I wanted to post to this thread, but I was locked-out. :rolleyes:
Dreamweaver MX rocks (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=503)

I've been playing with MS FrontPage, but I think that it is limited.

I've heard a lot about Dreamweaver. Are their different editions? Is it worth the cost? :confused:

[bluemonq]

there's only one version of dreamweaver...well, only one level. i think the newest one is mx2004; im still using mx. i got mine for free (my friend got it from his cousin @ macromedia for me), but i haven't played around with it a whole lot yet. :scratches head: really, it's wasted on me since i don't do anything supercomplex. as a wysiwyg editor, it's a tad overkill; front page will do fine (those extensions piss me off though). if you spend a lot of time building stuff, it has a whole lot of tools to make that easier...but just tooling around, it's definitely too powerful.

[Emperor_Mike]

FrontPage is crap. Previous versions add in unnecessary HTML (though I'm not sure if the newer version still does this.) In addition, as far as compatibility with Netscape or Mozilla browsers are concerned, you're plain out of luck. Dreamweaver is good, but if you want something readable, use Dreamweaver as an interface tool and hand-code the HTML/ASP/PHP/JSP/whatever using Notepad.

Is it worth it? If you're an experienced HTML author or backend programmer, it's not. For convenience sake, however, it's pretty darn good. Saves on having to type and retype mundane lines of code.

[Kennyb]

How can you say 'stick to frontpage'? It is by far the worse thing ever existed, making my profession look like a 5 year old who can do the job instead.

There are many editions of Dreamweaver that you can get hold of - version 1, 2, 3, 4, Ultradev, MX and current MX2004.

The biggest difference between them all is that from Ultradev onwards, it enables you to do asp, php, database application work, without needing to know too much of the language. Also the CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) gets better and more refine.

I find Dreamweaver is much easier to use than Frontpage and with the ability to upload folders and files whilst at the go, you don't need to get urself those FTP programs.

[kitty]

i never used frontpage, but i did use dreamweaver mx once for a work project. i prefer hard coding, but it made for easy previews for my boss, and she liked that there was software... it made her feel more in control.

dreamweaver mx *is* very good, but I'm not sure I trust their CSS. for some reason, I get a feeling it's kinda quirky, but I didn't really use it so...

all in all though, if I didn't insist so much on hard-coding, I would get it. I actually have it, I just don't use it.

[Faithless]

As an aside about MS Frontpage: What do you do if you're a company that relies on Frontpage for corporate web development?

It's definitely a lot cheaper a development tool per client.

[kitty]

As an aside about MS Frontpage: What do you do if you're a company that relies on Frontpage for corporate web development?

It's definitely a lot cheaper a development tool per client.


try to convince the higher ups that it's a worthwhile investment down the road when the crappiness of frontpage requires a quicker software turnover rate.

[bluemonq]

this is all true; i don't actually *like * frontpage; it's just cheaper and integrates with the rest of office, which undoubtedly most offices have. the best route of all is just to handcode the entire site; im just too lazy to do so...

[SunWuKong]

no don't buy it.
i'm sure it's possible to get it for free. *ahem* not that i endorse doing that...

[kitty]

this is all true; i don't actually *like * frontpage; it's just cheaper and integrates with the rest of office, which undoubtedly most offices have. the best route of all is just to handcode the entire site; im just too lazy to do so...

yeah, the only time i would use an editor is to jump around in the source code by using the preview pane.

[Kennyb]

That's the one thing I like about Dreamweaver - you can set the work layout either for a designer or as a developer.

I'm not a coder, hate it even but still learnt the basic and understanding of the syntax, incase I need to do some complex web stuff.

kittygirl, I agree with you with the CSS that dreamweaver has. However, with MX2004, they really dug deep and made it very good. I've read a lot of PC software magazines and computer design magazines, they say that the CSS is much (times 5) better in MX2004, making it more easier to use.

[achtungbaby]

no don't buy it.
i'm sure it's possible to get it for free. *ahem* not that i endorse doing that...Fuck that: ChottoMatte, if you want me to send it to you, PM me:)

I'm a big supporter of software piracy these these days. Besides, if many of these companies that say they are absolutely against piracy really were, they'd code more securely. The fact is, many of these companies tacitly support piracy cause it's just a free way to get their product into every computer.

My only complaint about Dreamweaver is that it's a resource hog. Other than that -- it's the best web management tool around I think. If you're only making minor changes or edits or whatever, use HTML-Edit or something lighter.

[Faithless]

try to convince the higher ups that it's a worthwhile investment down the road when the crappiness of frontpage requires a quicker software turnover rate.

Crappiness? Please explain your experience. <*Wants to pick brain *>

I'm interested in Dreamweaver as alternate to Frontpage for personal use, but I am aware of Frontpage as a corporate development tool, so I would be interested how crappy it really is.

We have setup a lot of sub webs and have steered departmental "developers" toward using Frontpage's "include page" features. It seems to help with the speed of web page turn-around.

Where have you seen the crappyness come into play?

(I know it sucks when it comes to formatting the underlying HTML, but what else?)

[Faithless]

Fuck that: ChottoMatte, if you want me to send it to you, PM me:)

I'm a big supporter of software piracy these these days. Besides, if many of these companies that say they are absolutely against piracy really were, they'd code more securely. The fact is, many of these companies tacitly support piracy cause it's just a free way to get their product into every computer.

My only complaint about Dreamweaver is that it's a resource hog. Other than that -- it's the best web management tool around I think. If you're only making minor changes or edits or whatever, use HTML-Edit or something lighter.

I'm interested in know if Dreamweaver has better templates and table design schemes, for one.

It is tempting to take you up on your offer, but I like legal, licensed copies of things.

[yoMAMA]

i worked in my school's IT support department for a while, and from what i heard, dreamweaver is like a million times better than MS frontpage........My boss said that it's so much better that word just can't describe it.

[kitty]

Crappiness? Please explain your experience. <*Wants to pick brain *>

I'm interested in Dreamweaver as alternate to Frontpage for personal use, but I am aware of Frontpage as a corporate development tool, so I would be interested how crappy it really is.

We have setup a lot of sub webs and have steered departmental "developers" toward using Frontpage's "include page" features. It seems to help with the speed of web page turn-around.

Where have you seen the crappyness come into play?

(I know it sucks when it comes to formatting the underlying HTML, but what else?)

seeing how i've never used frontpage and i don't rely on dreamweaver though i have it, i'm not sure i can be much use. from what i understand, frontpage adds really unnecessary HTML, and both can have the problem of showing you one thing in the preview pane, and then when you go and publish the page, it looking entirely differently in the browser window. (or at least with some of the stuff i was working with).

i don't know about templates, but i think dreamweaver probably excels at that, since i have used flash mx and some of the template goodies are quite nice.

it's possible tho that frontpage might be better for users who are less familiar with the web? dreamweaver has a certain learning hump you have to get over to publish anything but the most basic of websites... (i remember being a little confused by the layout of the toolbars and everything, and it has so many features I would sometimes get confused trying to find what I was looking for).

[kitty]

i worked in my school's IT support department for a while, and from what i heard, dreamweaver is like a million times better than MS frontpage........My boss said that it's so much better that word just can't describe it.

yeah, most of the people i talk to who use editors use dreamweaver. i'm personally having a hard time answering this question since i know few people who have used both.

[Martino]

Cost aside, is Dreamweaver easy to use by semi-computer-literate hacks like me? I'd like to create a site with flash intros and the like, but I'm going to have to buy both new hardware and software and am considering going over to Apple (my computer is so old it's steam powered and, from its performance of late, probably runs on an Atari 2600 memory chip).

[kitty]

Cost aside, is Dreamweaver easy to use by semi-computer-literate hacks like me? I'd like to create a site with flash intros and the like, but I'm going to have to buy both new hardware and software and am considering going over to Apple (my computer is so old it's steam powered and, from its performance of late, probably runs on an Atari 2600 memory chip).

dreamweaver can't make flash intros. that's flash mx. but you can buy the whole mx package that includes both of those pieces of software and fireworks mx (which i understand is useful but I personally don't know what it's for).

Or you can contact me or, apparently, AB. I got mine free, burned, i'm sure someone could teach me to make a copy for other people.

as far as dreamweaver ease -- i had a hard time figuring out how to do some basic things (like links) but I learned HTML through hard-coding. I'm sure learning dreamweaver is easier if you don't know how to code.

Flash took me... about two weeks to learn. Again, there's another learning curve to figuring it out, but once you get it, I'm sure people here can talk you through the basics.

Working dreamweaver is like... working with a more complicated word.
Using flash is a little like working with a mixture of powerpoint, a movie-making software, and ... learning actionscript. but for what you want to do, not too complicated. There's only a few basic concepts you need, which you can easily learn.

Overall, the package is a worthwhile investment.

[Martino]

Overall, the package is a worthwhile investment.

Did you ever look at ... you-know-what?

[Martino]

dreamweaver can't make flash intros. that's flash mx. but you can buy the whole mx package that includes both of those pieces of software and fireworks mx (which i understand is useful but I personally don't know what it's for) ...

... as far as dreamweaver ease -- i had a hard time figuring out how to do some basic things (like links) but I learned HTML through hard-coding. I'm sure learning dreamweaver is easier if you don't know how to code.

Flash took me... about two weeks to learn. Again, there's another learning curve to figuring it out, but once you get it, I'm sure people here can talk you through the basics.

I was taught basic code for stuff like Frontapage 2000 for the upkeep of my departmental website, but the site itself was very bland looking so I didn't get to polish or develop any proper skills. Now I want to jump a few generations and create something special ... Dreamweaver is starting to look the business.

[bluemonq]

dreamweaver can't make flash intros. that's flash mx. but you can buy the whole mx package that includes both of those pieces of software and fireworks mx (which i understand is useful but I personally don't know what it's for).

Or you can contact me or, apparently, AB. I got mine free, burned, i'm sure someone could teach me to make a copy for other people.

as far as dreamweaver ease -- i had a hard time figuring out how to do some basic things (like links) but I learned HTML through hard-coding. I'm sure learning dreamweaver is easier if you don't know how to code.

Flash took me... about two weeks to learn. Again, there's another learning curve to figuring it out, but once you get it, I'm sure people here can talk you through the basics.

Working dreamweaver is like... working with a more complicated word.
Using flash is a little like working with a mixture of powerpoint, a movie-making software, and ... learning actionscript. but for what you want to do, not too complicated. There's only a few basic concepts you need, which you can easily learn.

Overall, the package is a worthwhile investment.

studio mx full version costs ~$850 :eek: but it's still cheaper than buying the pieces alone. fireworks is photoshop software; it's supposed to be good cause it integrates with dw and flash. i don't like the interface though since im used to photoshop. the package also includes freehand, a vector graphics creator. cold fusion comes in some packages for php? :unsure: i don't have it.

and i learned html before dw, too. some things just seem easier by just coding it straight.

[Martino]

studio mx full version costs ~$850.

That's about ... 472 English Groats!

faints

[SunWuKong]

and i learned html before dw, too. some things just seem easier by just coding it straight.

yeah, i started coding HTML the good old-fashioned way - with notepad. and i learnt it by looking at other people's sources. but nowadays there's so much shit going on with some of the cool pages that you'll save yourself a whole shitload of a lot of time if you have something like Dreamweaver.

and oh, FrontPage sucks. always has, always will.

[tazadar]

I use Homesite. I guess it depends on the user, but I comfortable with it. I used Dreamweaver once. It had all those flowing toolbars. It's confusing to use.

[Faithless]

seeing how i've never used frontpage and i don't rely on dreamweaver though i have it, i'm not sure i can be much use. from what i understand, frontpage adds really unnecessary HTML, and both can have the problem of showing you one thing in the preview pane, and then when you go and publish the page, it looking entirely differently in the browser window. (or at least with some of the stuff i was working with).

i don't know about templates, but i think dreamweaver probably excels at that, since i have used flash mx and some of the template goodies are quite nice.

it's possible tho that frontpage might be better for users who are less familiar with the web? dreamweaver has a certain learning hump you have to get over to publish anything but the most basic of websites... (i remember being a little confused by the layout of the toolbars and everything, and it has so many features I would sometimes get confused trying to find what I was looking for).

I've experienced that with the "show you one thing in the preview and get another thing in the browser".

I do like Frontpage's insertion of things like a <div> tag. I don't like the unexpected <p> tags.

I'm very interested in how rich the template feature is, but I think I should consult a book rather than purchase a copy of the Dreamweaver sw.

[teaz0r]

i can get you every single MX - dreamweaver, flash whatever.
'or whatever software you want. all under $10.

[teaz0r]

jeebus crust. $850?

ridiculous.

yeah. full studio whatevermajig. under 10 dollah.

[Craig]

i can get you every single MX - dreamweaver, flash whatever.
'or whatever software you want. all under $10.Yes, we should be supporting our Asian cousins with our purchases. Buy Asian and let our currencies circulate and support our people.

[teaz0r]

i love pirate plaza.
6 floors of pirated software.

<3

[ism]

Dreamweaver is nice if you deal with disparate technologies and want to seamlessly bring them together. The integration with Flash and Generator is nice. For the less hardcore, it's a good way to go.

With the push towards semantically correct XHTML, accessibility, standards-compliance, and aggressive content display, Dreamweaver just can't keep up. You'll wrestle with it, trying to make a flow 3-column layout in pure CSS that works across modern browsers and degrades gracefully with older ones.

The biggest plus I think, for the casual web designer, is its extensive scripting library. I've built mine over 10 years, which saves a ton of time. The casual designer doesn't have that luxury.

I just don't like the loss of control. Dreamweaver will throw up on the CSS hacks (though valid) required to get around bugs like IE5's fucked up box model. Anyone that's serious just handcodes it. For everyone else, I'd just recommend Mozilla's editor, since it's a WYSIWYG that makes clean code.

DOS Edit used to be my pal (notepad didn't have line and column count) but I've since moved on to Emacs with a Javascript mode, HTML helper mode, CSS helper mode, JDE (helps with JSP tags), and some customizations. If anyone's interested I can set you up.

[bluemonq]

i love pirate plaza.
6 floors of pirated software.

<3
i was on a trip to china a few years back, and so i was staying at someone's house, and they were like, you want to get a copy of neverwinter nights? (this is when it just came out about a month previously) well, i said if we're passing by, it couldn't hurt. so after lunch, we pass by this newspaper stall that just had boxes of cds in front, and he motioned me towards them...it was the most ridiculous thing i ever saw: ever single game post 2001 that i could recall could be had there. and the guy manning the booth said that if i didn't see something that i wanted to let him know; he would call up someone and it'd be ready in 15 minutes. they had plenty of mp3s too.

[Tao]

i was on a trip to china a few years back, and so i was staying at someone's house, and they were like, you want to get a copy of neverwinter nights? (this is when it just came out about a month previously) well, i said if we're passing by, it couldn't hurt. so after lunch, we pass by this newspaper stall that just had boxes of cds in front, and he motioned me towards them...it was the most ridiculous thing i ever saw: ever single game post 2001 that i could recall could be had there. and the guy manning the booth said that if i didn't see something that i wanted to let him know; he would call up someone and it'd be ready in 15 minutes. they had plenty of mp3s too.
they have pron too...which suprised me considering how it's illegal and shit