Bush woos Hispanic immigrants

[Craig]

Bush woos Hispanic immigrants

Julian Borger in Washington
Wednesday January 7, 2004
The Guardian

President George Bush is expected to unveil proposals today to allow at least some of the estimated 10 million illegal immigrants in the US to become legal guest workers, in an election-year gambit aimed at the country's fast-growing Hispanic electorate.

The initiative is likely to create an internet-based job registry, and to offer incentives for illegal immigrants to come forward and register.

Those that pass background checks and have US work experience would receive temporary legal status, and the chance eventually to gain a green card, offering permanent residency and the potential to adopt American citizenship.

"The president has long talked about the importance of having an immigration policy that matches willing workers with willing employers," the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said.

"It's important for America to be a welcoming society. We are a nation of immigrants, and we're better for it."

About 60% of the illegal immigrants in the US are from Mexico.

Soon after taking office in 2001, President Bush began negotiations with the Mexican president, Vicente Fox, on reviewing the legal status of immigrants. However those talks were abandoned after the September 11 terrorist attacks. They are due to restart on Monday when Mr Bush visits Mexico.

White House officials yesterday insisted that the new proposal did not amount to a blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants, which would be fiercely opposed by many of the Republican party's core supporters.

It is unclear whether any such substantial change in US immigration law - potentially the furthest reaching in two decades - would be approved by Congress.

Most activists for Hispanic rights cautiously welcomed the proposal yesterday, but said they would judge it by the results. And they questioned whether it was more than an election ploy.

Cecilia Munoz, vice-president of one Washington-based group, the National Council of La Raza, said: "The Latino community knows the difference between political posturing and a real policy debate."

Hispanics now account for more than 13% of the US population and 7% of the electorate, and they are the fastest growing community in the republic.

Mr Bush won 35% of the Hispanic vote in the 2000 presidential election, and so he would have to improve on that share to be sure of winning the November election.

The political mastermind behind the 2004 campaign, Karl Rove, is believed to have specifically targeted Hispanics in his electoral strategy.

A recent opinion poll of Hispanic Americans found that 52% of them saw themselves as politically independent, with no party affiliation, making them one of the biggest swing voting blocks in the country.

The president's announcement is expected to take the form of a declared set of principles, rather than a set piece of legislation.

There is already legislation pending debate in Congress that roughly conforms to the president's guidelines, and Mr Bush's speech today will represent a gesture of support for that legislation.

However, it is not a guarantee that the legislation will pass or even be voted on this election year.

[xazncrazinessx]

I personally could give a flying fuck for the hispanics, no rascism intended, it's just the whole my family, my friends, my race and /then/ the rest of the world view i have on things. I wanta know how likely is it that asians who have sneaked into this country and are illegal immigrants will get this legal work status and will be able to eventually get their green cards? I personally know a few illegal immigrants and i know they would thank god if they were able to come out into the light and eventually get their citizen ship.

[moJo]

i honestly don't know exactly how the illegal immigrant process goes. when the drivers license thing happened in CA, according to the proposal that got reversed by arnold, i read that the 'illegal' immigrants who paid taxes and had taxpayer IDs would be able to obtain drivers licenses. how does the US allow for 'illegal' immigrants to pay taxes? that just doesn't make sense. its like, the US wants the tax revenue from 'illegals' but won't legalize them. what is that???

we just need to fix our immigration policy. somehow. cuz it's not right that these people work so hard for super-low wages and no benefits. the reality is that our economy (at least in CA) is totally benefitting from illegal immigrant labor force. they are doing the shit jobs that citizens don't want to do. the rest of us benefit from them - the citizens, government, economy, etc.

i'm interested in hearing more about his proposals. even if he is a republican.

[Rogmok]

I personally could give a flying fuck for the hispanics, no rascism intended, it's just the whole my family, my friends, my race and /then/ the rest of the world view i have on things. I wanta know how likely is it that asians who have sneaked into this country and are illegal immigrants will get this legal work status and will be able to eventually get their green cards? I personally know a few illegal immigrants and i know they would thank god if they were able to come out into the light and eventually get their citizen ship.

thats kinda selfish... according to the article, this would address 60% of the illegal immigrant population. If they were to start somewhere.. i'd think this would be a good group to start w/ since they represent the majority.

break away from the 'we watch after our own' mentality. Even non-asians minorities need support for their struggles.

[myself808]

This program is a way to keep track of illegal immigrants by giving them a temporary work permit. It does not give one an inroad to a green card. IMO this has very little chance of being enacted, although it looks good on paper, having the gov't act as an employment agency for fruit-pickers won't sit well with a lot of people

[xazncrazinessx]

yeh i understand that it's selfish and that breaking away from that mentality is a good thing. but at the same time i /know/ that most hispanics, most whites, most blacks, most whatevers could give less than a flying fuck about me. and as such i watch out for my own and i'm not ging to make you change your view and you probably won't be able to change mine but it's good to know eahc other's views. yeh i'll support other race's struggles but it has to help our own because i view political power in the image of a fight, the white man has the assault rifle and the armor, the black man got a handgun, the hispanic man got a pipe gun and the asian man got nothing more than his fists.

[Craig]

the reality is that our economy (at least in CA) is totally benefitting from illegal immigrant labor force
We must be living in different states.

[nonamerasian]

when the drivers license thing happened in CA, according to the proposal that got reversed by arnold, i read that the 'illegal' immigrants who paid taxes and had taxpayer IDs would be able to obtain drivers licenses. how does the US allow for 'illegal' immigrants to pay taxes?

Doesn't it automatically come out of their paychecks?

[ism]

Doesn't it automatically come out of their paychecks?

If the company doesn't pay under the table, then yes, the illegal usually supplies a fake SS# and whoever that belongs to earns the credit. With the SS statements being sent out every year, people should be wary to watch out for additional reported income that could push them into a higher tax bracket and be an indication of possible ID theft. But hey, more SS money when you retire.

What I don't get about the CA thing is... how do they get a legitimate taxpayer ID if they are illegal? The only way I could see that happening is if they got a taxpayer ID for a limited liability/corporation.

[moJo]

We must be living in different states.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17065
here's a big chunk of it:
Because to really stop illegal immigration, without greatly increasing legal immigration from poor countries, would mean wiping out the U.S. agriculture and garment industries, among others. To blame the worker, rather than the system they operate in, is the core hypocrisy our immigration policy has long been based upon.

If we really wanted to stop illegal immigrant workers from coming into this country, it would be straightforward and simple: Require a tamper-proof identity card for any applicant for a job in this country and impose stiff criminal penalties on employers who hire people who do not provide the requisite card. But most major business associations would oppose enforceable sanctions because employers would no longer be able to find a vulnerable labor force to exploit. Undocumented immigrants come here to work. If jobs didn't exist, the number crossing the border, mostly from Latin America, would plummet.

That's how you "seal the borders."

But the cost for ending those jobs would be high. Ending the endemic use of undocumented workers in low-wage, dead-end jobs would force employers to pay real wages and offer real benefits to attract "real Americans" to do the work, and some jobs would simply leave the country. Prices for food, clothing and any product that relies on dirt-cheap labor would rise for everybody, and those middle- and upper-class families that count on don't-ask, don't-tell relationships with undocumented housekeepers, gardeners, nannies and elder- care workers would be affected.

That is the conundrum faced by California Gov.-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger. In his campaign, he demagogically railed that a new law permitting undocumented immigrants to obtain a driver's license threatened national security. Yet many of the people who voted for him employ illegal immigrants and even expect them to ferry their children about. Why in the world wouldn't they want those people to prove they are properly qualified to drive? And why can't they make do with legal workers?

The answer is they are greedy and cheap, just like the executives of Wal-Mart. Too many employers are unwilling to abide by labor laws governing pay, overtime and worker safety that would attract legal workers. The undocumented workers are used to undermine the hard-won gains of the American labor movement. Three supermarket chains in California are currently trying to break their unions, citing the encroachment of Wal-Mart on their turf even as their profits soar.

Who will replace some of these workers if they aren't willing to give up salary and basic benefits? Take a guess.

As a matter of justice, we have to stop pitting one group of workers against another. The first step would be to make the undocumented workers already here legal. Or, failing that humane step, eliminate the jobs for undocumented workers by toughening the law on hiring – and arresting employers who violate the law. We must increase the number of legal immigrants allowed annually, particularly from Mexico with its strong family and historic ties to this country. Also, immigration laws have been rigged to favor certain skilled occupations, ignoring the reality that much of our prosperity derives from the sweat of unskilled immigrant labor.

[moJo]

What I don't get about the CA thing is... how do they get a legitimate taxpayer ID if they are illegal? The only way I could see that happening is if they got a taxpayer ID for a limited liability/corporation.
that's exactly what puzzles me, too.

[Craig]

wiping out the U.S. agriculture and garment industries, among others. To blame the worker, rather than the system they operate in, is the core hypocrisy our immigration policy has long been based upon.
Let's put to work some of those people educated in computer science, electrical and mechanical engineering. It can eliminate the need for most of these 'agricultural' and 'garment industry' jobs.

Ending the endemic use of undocumented workers in low-wage, dead-end jobs would force employers to pay real wages and offer real benefits to attract "real Americans" to do the work, and some jobs would simply leave the country. Prices for food, clothing and any product that relies on dirt-cheap labor would rise for everybody, and those middle- and upper-class families that count on don't-ask, don't-tell relationships with undocumented housekeepers, gardeners, nannies and elder- care workers would be affected.
Yeah, you wouldn't actually want to pay a person a 'real' wage to do a job. Isn't that quite the capitalistic idea.

Strange, prices of food in America never seem to be directly affected by actual production and distribution costs. If that were the case I would be paying less for food produced in California when bought in California. I strangely remember paying about half as much for this same California food when I lived elsewhere.

When was the last time anybody here bought clothes that were made in the USA ? Have you checked the labels in your garments, or checked out the garments in the stores.

Darn it, must I give up those housekeepers, gardeners, nannies and elder-care workers that I can so easily pay for with my low income tax rate and extremely affordable cost of living in California.

immigration laws have been rigged to favor certain skilled occupations, ignoring the reality that much of our prosperity derives from the sweat of unskilled immigrant labor.
Our prosperity, certainly none of my 'prosperity', and definitely not in California.

[missmeow]

They can get a SSN if they have applied for a program and are awaiting adjudication of their cases provided they have work authorization. For example, the LIFE act, which is what the old 1986 amnesty cases are *still* being adjudicated under. People who have applied are able to get work authorization cards and work like everyone else until their application has been granted or denied.

Personally, I think a blanket amnesty, which this is, is wrong. The amount of people legalized in the last amnesty was about 6 million, this time around it could be up to 10 million. If anything, amnesty is a green light for more illegal immigration. Quite frankly, I think it is BS that Mexicans are basically given immigration rights because of their proximity to the US while people around the world have to wait years to get into the country legally. But, I'll leave it at that since I don't feel up to an immigration debate.

[SunWuKong]

if their work is legalised, it would be great to start a legit business that connects their cheap labour with people that need their cheap labour. and that way, their labour will be taxable.

[Leviticus]

I personally could give a flying fuck for the hispanics, no rascism intended, it's just the whole my family, my friends, my race and /then/ the rest of the world view i have on things. I wanta know how likely is it that asians who have sneaked into this country and are illegal immigrants will get this legal work status and will be able to eventually get their green cards? I personally know a few illegal immigrants and i know they would thank god if they were able to come out into the light and eventually get their citizen ship.

lmao