Asians or Orientals shopping at Abercrombie? [Archive]

Chris

08-19-2002, 02:42 PM

As one of the organizers and backer of the A&F protests. I went out there to make a statement.
I protested those shirts because of a few reason.

1) there was NO market study on the shirts that was done. I bet if they did a market study they will have found that it was highly offensive. But they did? No.

2) The Wong Brother shirt was a OFFENSIVE shirt to the Asian American history. If one has even bother to study the history of Early Asian America. They would have found out that one of the few jobs that Asian can get was doing laundry. Would you overlook that part of history? For them to mock our past and what we have achieve?

As AliBaba point out his friends in Malaysia found it funny. (I am Malaysian Chinese) I can see why. They didn't know the history behind it. If they did know about the history of it. I bet they will not be laughing.

3) They have yet to put a single Asian Model in their ads. What does that tell us? That we are not beautiful people in US and we don't warrant any space in your campaign ads?

There are a few other factors in my decision to boycott A&F. But those were my 3 majoy points.

Though I am still boycotting A&F . Boycott's use of Orientals and Oblivious Dumb Asian is harsh statement. That statement made it sound like that post was a hypocritcal in itself.

Angel Nympho does have a point. (Though I might not have worded the way she has.) That yes we are American and have a dual identity is finding a balance to being asian and being american. Even for shopping. Yes I still have friends that shop at A&F. If my friends wants to shop at A&F they can, it their choice. I might voice my dissent but they are allow to go there. Like what happen last time. My friends went into A&F and bought something they wonder why I didn't go in with them. I told what happen and they felt guilty about it. Ignorance is not bliss in some situation. This was one of them to me.

boycott

08-20-2002, 03:14 AM

It seems to me that those asians amongst us who choose to ignore and deny blatant racism against us are obviously not on our side. Furthermore, they somehow don't see themselves as Asians but rather as the fictional and colorless Americans who supposedly take no side except the side of freely shopping at wherever they want despite the current situation of ching-chong chinaman shirts. These asians are the same ones who are blindly surrounded by racist they imagine are friends and on the contrary are offended when the term "oriental" is used to describe them. I mean think about what kind of people created that word as an insult for Asians as well as for objects to be possessed like rugs, vases, paintings,etc... If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.
As for those Asians/Americans who know about the t-shirts and have always and are still supporting Abercrombie by visiting their store and buying clothes not intended for them unless they're blonde and white, may they be the first ones to have their faces caricatured and used on even more racist t-shirts in the future as I can see that happening. Now, you traitors who patronize Abercrumbie, imagine wearing shirts depicting whites as hillbillies, trailertrash, rednecks, childmolesting catholic priests, obese beach whales, domestic abuse adovates, crossdressers, rogue cops, Thailand visiting prostitution johns, and more. Maybe you might even have some of my ideas made into shirts and wear them since you aren't easily offended at least not by my ideas right?

Chris

08-20-2002, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 10:14 AM
It seems to me that those asians amongst us who choose to ignore and deny blatant racism against us are obviously not on our side. Furthermore, they somehow don't see themselves as Asians but rather as the fictional and colorless Americans who supposedly take no side except the side of freely shopping at wherever they want despite the current situation of ching-chong chinaman shirts. These asians are the same ones who are blindly surrounded by racist they imagine are friends and on the contrary are offended when the term "oriental" is used to describe them. I mean think about what kind of people created that word as an insult for Asians as well as for objects to be possessed like rugs, vases, paintings,etc... If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.
As for those Asians/Americans who know about the t-shirts and have always and are still supporting Abercrombie by visiting their store and buying clothes not intended for them unless they're blonde and white, may they be the first ones to have their faces caricatured and used on even more racist t-shirts in the future as I can see that happening. Now, you traitors who patronize Abercrumbie, imagine wearing shirts depicting whites as hillbillies, trailertrash, rednecks, childmolesting catholic priests, obese beach whales, domestic abuse adovates, crossdressers, rogue cops, Thailand visiting prostitution johns, and more. Maybe you might even have some of my ideas made into shirts and wear them since you aren't easily offended at least not by my ideas right?
I'm sorry Boycott. But I do not think that's true. You keeping referring your idealogy to applied in the sense of "us". Your "us" is a very small minority of how people feel. Being a gay asian myself who has work with the Asian community for the past 7 years. I find your methodlogy and approach very crude. Your approach is reverse racism. Your response of calling these white people. (many of them my friends.) as "hillbillies, trailertrash, rednecks" is just as bad as those picture of the Wong Brother and thd Dragon Ladies, chinks and ching-chong. You do not fight fire by adding more gasoline to it. Calling people traitors due to lack of knowledge is a rather callous remark don't you think? Most of us do not live in the Bay Area, Washington DC or New York where there is a lot APA that live and grew up in. Having been to a school with majority Asian gives me a different aspect than a person who is the only Asian in school or one in a dime in a dozen.

Background on me just to see how "Asian" I am. I speak Cantonese, Mandarin and Japanese, smattering of Korean and Malay. Read and write in 3 of those. I serve on the Board of Directors in a grassroot community group that helps improve the life of San Francisco Chinatown and the people that live there. I also was as national ambassador of the US for an international Chinese youth conference in Beijing. Is not that enough creditals of what I am talking about.

Maybe you're just bitter and the life you are in just jaded you. All my credital of working with community is substantive. It people like you that gives people a negative impression to "our" people. I am a very small minority as well. Being gay and asian, having to overcome all these adversitys in life to get where I am where i can say "Yes I am Malaysian Chinese and Yes I am proud of who I am." and be happy of who I am and educate people in a Postive way. It makes life worthwhile. Being negative will get you nowhere. Get a negative statement, get a negative response. Something to think about.

SunWuKong

08-20-2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 05:14 AM
These asians are the same ones who are blindly surrounded by racist they imagine are friends and on the contrary are offended when the term "oriental" is used to describe them. I mean think about what kind of people created that word as an insult for Asians as well as for objects to be possessed like rugs, vases, paintings,etc...
actually the word "orient" was not created as an insult. it simply means "eastern". i am not sure how it became to be considered offensive, but it probably has to do with racist sentiments that had been widely displayed when the word was most popularly used. for your information, many if not most people in east asia refer to themselves as "oriental" instead of "asian".

kasia

08-20-2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 19 2002, 07:23 PM
I'm offended by people who forget that Americans are allowed to shop wherever the fuck they want, do whatever the fuck they want, and shouldn't have to answer to people who assume that because they do what they want, they are "oblivious orientals."

by saying "forgetting what it means to be asian american" i meant to emphasize the AMERICAN part of that. aka... forgetting that being an american allows you do buy as many goddamn abercrombie shirts as you want. u dont have to approve, but shit... that was mean.
don't forget that being "american" also gives him a right to call you whatever he wants, judge you however he likes, and to label you as a "oblivious oriental" if he chooses.

i know you are entitled to decide on your own whether you are offended by a & f or not, but i'm very curious as to why you find the label "oblivious oriental" offensive but not caricatures of asians with "chink eyes".

deez nuts

08-20-2002, 11:15 AM

Wow, it's getting belligerent in here.

Alright man here goes:

Chris, let me start off by saying your credentials is very impressive. I applaud and admire what you do and what you have done, specifically in this matter in educating and raising awareness for this issue. I have to disagree on one thing. Every Asian chooses to voice their opinion and disdain in their own way. Boycott's methods may seem crude, boisterous and maybe not your fortee, but I admire his voice just as much as yours. I'll tell you why:

In my view (and I guess a disclaimer my view only), though others may share it as well, is that it's the boisterous and so called "militant"ones are the ones that draw attention to certain issues. I believe this is the case, here. Look throughout history, especially among black history, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Huey Newton and the Black Panthers, etc etc. You may or may not have agreed with their tactics and views, but they did bring attention to their cause. I believe your approach and boycott's approach go hand in hand and work synergistically. My father always stressed when I was growing up, to get that edge in a white dominated society, since some people in power will just see you as only a Chinaman, knowledge is power. It's yours, you hold it and no one can take it away from you (heh, to his dismay and disappointment, I chose medicine over law, but I digress). And it is the single most important thing you bring to the table whether you are seeking a career position or more importantly bringing something to the table for debate. I believe that this is definitely what Chris brings to the table.

To be honest, I can't blame Angelnympho for going into defensive mode. But, however, with the A&F issue in such debate, and it is blatant racism on their part, it is only to be expected that some will attack your choice of wearing A&F, especially in an Asian forum. And like Angelnympho and Kasia said, it is a free country, you're free to shop where you want, buy what you want and wear what you want. On the flip side, it's also someone's right to voice their opinion, especially if its open for debate. But if you're gonna dish it, you're gonna have to be able to take it on both sides, whether you choose to wear A&F or not to wear A&F. It just comes down on your personal threshold and where you stand.

Those that know me, know where I stand on this whole mess of an issue. It has already been stated in my previous posts.

Peace.

Chris

08-20-2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 06:15 PM
Wow, it's getting belligerent in here.

Alright man here goes:

Chris, let me start off by saying your credentials is very impressive. I applaud and admire what you do and what you have done, specifically in this matter in educating and raising awareness for this issue. I have to disagree on one thing. Every Asian chooses to voice their opinion and disdain in their own way. Boycott's methods may seem crude, boisterous and maybe not your fortee, but I admire his voice just as much as yours. I'll tell you why:

In my view (and I guess a disclaimer my view only), though others may share it as well, is that it's the boisterous and so called "militant"ones are the ones that draw attention to certain issues. I believe this is the case, here. Look throughout history, especially among black history, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Huey Newton and the Black Panthers, etc etc. You may or may not have agreed with their tactics and views, but they did bring attention to their cause. I believe your approach and boycott's approach go hand in hand and work synergistically. My father always stressed when I was growing up, to get that edge in a white dominated society, since most people in power will just see you as only a Chinaman, knowledge is power. It's yours, you hold it and noone can take it away from you (heh, to his dismay and disappointment, I chose medicine over law, but I digress). And it is the single most important thing you bring to the table whether you are seeking a career position or more importantly bringing something to the table for debate. I believe that this is definitely what Chris brings to the table.

To be honest, I can't blame Angelnympho for going into defensive mode. But, however, with the A&F issue in such debate, and it is blatant racism on their part, it is only to be expected that some will attack your choice of wearing A&F, especially in an Asian forum. And like Angelnympho and Kasia said, it is a free country, you're free to shop where you want, buy what you want and wear what you want. On the flip side, it's also someone's right to voice their opinion, especially if its open for debate. But if you're gonna dish it, you're gonna have to be able to take it on both sides, whether you choose to wear A&F or not to wear A&F. It just comes down on your personal threshold and where you stand.

Those that know me, know where I stand on this whole mess of an issue. It has already been stated in my previous posts.

Peace.
I agreed with your points Chasiubao. I just wanted to bring in a different preceptive to this discussion. One that was actually there in the protest and help organize it. Whether the remark is crude or not is just an opinion. But I never tried to push my value or opinion onto others. It a matter of opening a line of communication. I also want to let it be known certainly I find boycott opinion to be different than mines. I really respect his opinion. It his and his alone other people might agreed or disagree but that how we learn. :)

angel nympho

08-20-2002, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 19 2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 19 2002, 02:23 PM
I'm offended by people who forget that Americans are allowed to shop wherever the fuck they want, do whatever the fuck they want, and shouldn't have to answer to people who assume that because they do what they want, they are "oblivious orientals."

by saying "forgetting what it means to be asian american" i meant to emphasize the AMERICAN part of that. aka... forgetting that being an american allows you do buy as many goddamn abercrombie shirts as you want. u dont have to approve, but shit... that was mean.
but do you think that consciousness and sensitivity should be raised to persuade Asian Americans to choose not to give their money to companies and groups that harm the Asian American image and hinder progress in the Asian American community?
there's a difference between sensitivity and calling people who choose to do what they wish "dumb looking asians" and "oblivious orientals." that guy was straight talkin' shit.

angel nympho

08-20-2002, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 10:14 AM
If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.

And this is relevance... how?

Kasia --> I know he has a right to calling me whatever he wants to call me... but I have a right to talk back, don't I? And I find his statements offensive because, though he refers to Asians as "us," he's totally talking down on people who don't agree with him and are utterly REPULSED by A&F's actions. Sorry, I just didn't realize how much of a double standard was present. Asians themselves are allowed to draw little chinky eyed pictures, but once it's up on a shirt, the story changes. And sure, A&F is directed towards mainly White people, but it's not like they don't have ANY Asians in their ranks. Lets not forget that they DO have Asians working in their design department. It's not that I don't respect Boycotts opinion. I'm not stopping him from thinking whatever he wants to think, but the minute he puts his opinions out there for public scrutiny, I'll be SURE to voice mine.

DaBestSpoona

08-20-2002, 02:11 PM

I dont shop at "mall shops"

call me a snobby label whore

SunWuKong

08-20-2002, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 20 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 10:14 AM
If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.

And this is relevance... how?

Kasia --> I know he has a right to calling me whatever he wants to call me... but I have a right to talk back, don't I? And I find his statements offensive because, though he refers to Asians as "us," he's totally talking down on people who don't agree with him and are utterly REPULSED by A&F's actions. Sorry, I just didn't realize how much of a double standard was present. Asians themselves are allowed to draw little chinky eyed pictures, but once it's up on a shirt, the story changes. And sure, A&F is directed towards mainly White people, but it's not like they don't have ANY Asians in their ranks. Lets not forget that they DO have Asians working in their design department. It's not that I don't respect Boycotts opinion. I'm not stopping him from thinking whatever he wants to think, but the minute he puts his opinions out there for public scrutiny, I'll be SURE to voice mine.
so do you feel that A&F were looking down on the entire demography of people who are Asian with Asian caricatures on their shirts?

achtungbaby

08-20-2002, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Aug 20 2002, 11:15 AM
I believe your approach and boycott's approach go hand in hand and work synergistically.
I agree. Power ain't easy; sometimes you have to build coalitions, and sometimes you have to scare the hell out of people.

boycott, I appreciate you starting this thread, but I do think some of your understandable frustration and anger is misplaced. While I don't in any way condone supporting A&F in any way, I (choose to) think that many Asians who do continue to purchase their products aren't doing so to undermine the community as a whole -- they just need to be made more aware of what the issues are, and a lot of times, that sort of "consciousness" can be a complex process.

I don't mean to pick on angelnympho or anything, but she's a prime example of an Asian American who wasn't offended by the shirts. Should she be crucified? Of course not, not when issues run a little deeper than that. She's stated before that she may not completely identify with certain aspects of Asian culture the same way others like yourself might, and I don't think this is a reason to get angry -- people rarely choose their station in life like that.

I am convinced, though, that the more she finds, the more she'll relate.

angel nympho

08-21-2002, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 20 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 10:14 AM
If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.

And this is relevance... how?

Kasia --> I know he has a right to calling me whatever he wants to call me... but I have a right to talk back, don't I? And I find his statements offensive because, though he refers to Asians as "us," he's totally talking down on people who don't agree with him and are utterly REPULSED by A&F's actions. Sorry, I just didn't realize how much of a double standard was present. Asians themselves are allowed to draw little chinky eyed pictures, but once it's up on a shirt, the story changes. And sure, A&F is directed towards mainly White people, but it's not like they don't have ANY Asians in their ranks. Lets not forget that they DO have Asians working in their design department. It's not that I don't respect Boycotts opinion. I'm not stopping him from thinking whatever he wants to think, but the minute he puts his opinions out there for public scrutiny, I'll be SURE to voice mine.
so do you feel that A&F were looking down on the entire demography of people who are Asian with Asian caricatures on their shirts?
No, not really. I see it as sort of the same thing as when Irish people are depicted by pictures of red-haired bearded guys with pipes and buckles on their shoes... It should be common sense that it's not an... *accurate* depiction. And I think that for somebody like me who makes a few racist comments every now and then, or laughs at racist jokes now and then... it would only be fair if I was allowed to be the butt of one or two.

SunWuKong

08-21-2002, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 21 2002, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 20 2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 20 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by boycott@Aug 20 2002, 10:14 AM
If a person male or female sleeps with whomever he/she meets everytime, that person is indeed a slut. Some sluts will deny what they are, but deep down inside they are sad people that need help.

And this is relevance... how?

Kasia --> I know he has a right to calling me whatever he wants to call me... but I have a right to talk back, don't I? And I find his statements offensive because, though he refers to Asians as "us," he's totally talking down on people who don't agree with him and are utterly REPULSED by A&F's actions. Sorry, I just didn't realize how much of a double standard was present. Asians themselves are allowed to draw little chinky eyed pictures, but once it's up on a shirt, the story changes. And sure, A&F is directed towards mainly White people, but it's not like they don't have ANY Asians in their ranks. Lets not forget that they DO have Asians working in their design department. It's not that I don't respect Boycotts opinion. I'm not stopping him from thinking whatever he wants to think, but the minute he puts his opinions out there for public scrutiny, I'll be SURE to voice mine.
so do you feel that A&F were looking down on the entire demography of people who are Asian with Asian caricatures on their shirts?
No, not really. I see it as sort of the same thing as when Irish people are depicted by pictures of red-haired bearded guys with pipes and buckles on their shoes... It should be common sense that it's not an... *accurate* depiction. And I think that for somebody like me who makes a few racist comments every now and then, or laughs at racist jokes now and then... it would only be fair if I was allowed to be the butt of one or two.
sorry for asking so many questions. but i'm just interested in what you feel would be "crossing the line".

i think i remember one of your earlier posts saying that you would consider someone making "ching chong" sounds to be offensive. how do you feel that is different from asian caricatures being printed on shirts? i mean we all know that "ching chong ching" is not an accurate depiction of how asian people talk.

achtungbaby

08-21-2002, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 21 2002, 08:36 AM
i think i remember one of your earlier posts saying that you would consider someone making "ching chong" sounds to be offensive.
To add to SWK's questions:

Weren't those "ching chong chinamen" noises/sounds more acceptable when we were growing up, seemingly? I know when I was growing up, surrounded by whites, at first I thought I had to just take it -- why the change?

It's all just a joke, right?

boycott

08-21-2002, 10:31 AM

Well, having a white bf and using the oxymoron angel with nympho plus the almost too randy cam pic as an Asian girl during this period of trendy oriental armcandy trophyism is one way of being the butt of all jokes. Now, while there is intrinsically nothing wrong with dating interracially in a racially fair world, the world that we live in is currently and has been for a long time unfairly led by Europeans due to self-classification as ominipotent superiors over people of color. As Asians/Asian Americans you have to realize that fact and understand that you have a responsibility to the type of people you look like to not embarass them but rather help them by not selling yourself out to others. This means that you have the right as fellow Americans to do and say what you want keeping in mind that your actions will have consequences good or bad. The problem these days is that a lot of people selfishly do what they like without thinking as if rebelling to the world. Getting back to your desire to be the butt of a joke or two, save it for yourself. There are plenty of things you can personally do to accomplish this; eg. you can go to school dressed in those cheong sams (http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/Article_Detail.asp?Article_ID=6273) or in a kimono everyday. Stick chopsticks in your hair and during lunch time take them out to eat french fries or sphaghetti with and without washing them stick it back in your hair for the European Americans to see. You can wear t-shirts from Abercrombie that mock Asians specifically Chinese and show your white friends how humble you are to spend your money on insulting yourself because when you make a fool of and laugh at yourself everyone can be your friend. When whites, blacks and hispanics call you Chinaman, Chink, Gook or whatever ingenious racial epithet they come up with you can reply "yeah, that's me and doncha fa get it." and join them in pulling your eyes up from the sides while chanting "ching chong chan" and making kung fu noises "uuuuh awwww, woh--oh--aw chuu!!!" Finish it off by presenting your new friends a wallet size pic of your Dad with buck tooth hanging from a tree branch that his car hit with his hands out; one holding laundry and the other holding a chinese to go box with the pagoda print and the caption "Sollee I dryving bad, I dereeva jaineese fewd and landaree kweek."
Or you could do some research and find out that Asians have been the butt of jokes for a very long time and even to this day, I mean take a look around you, do you see any positive Asian (male) images in Hollywood movies? Do you see any Asian models for Abercrumbie period? or any Asian male models for Old Navy?

boycott

08-21-2002, 11:07 AM

Reply to Chris:
First of all my idea of "us" is not as small as you may think. I used to think that people who thought like me were few but recently I'm finding that there are a lot of ppl like me who do not like white guys' dominance over us Asians and worse dating our low-esteemed self-loathing Asian sisters.
While I never question anyone's credentials, I respect that you seemingly have great credentials and are able to look past the racism of this society to simple accept ppl for what they are. Do you find my methodlogy as crude as I find the fact that Asians /Asian Americans in America are perpetual foreigners in a country will helped build. For the record, I did not call your friends "hillbillies, etc..." but rather used those monikers as an example for t-shirts about whites to make a point to nympho about those wong bro shirts,etc.. if you'll go back and read it again.
You say you do not fight fire by adding more gasoline, well I'm not adding gasoline as that would be to add "hateful violence," rather I'm setting a backfire from our side to stop the fire as no amount of water from our side will put out the eternal inferno from their side. You see I don't wish harm to white people like some of them wish to us as we've seen with the brutal Death of Vincent Chin to which the killers would have been punished severely if they had killed a dog instead of the slap on the wrist because thanks to American Justice System Vincent Chin's life like many Asian's is less than that of an animal.
I don't call ppl traitors due to lack of knowledge as we both know that the ones I named fully acknowledge the status quo and their opinions and actions. You see them blindly dismissing the racist t-shirts as harmless jokes and puns on Asians.
I hope that as a gay Asian male, you find other Asian males attractive and don't dismiss them as unattractive like our female counterparts. I hope you don't desperately go in seek of white bfs or older whites (40+) like some Asian females in hopes that you will be treated better in restaurants, department stores,etc...
I don't see my views as negative but more pro-Asian. As Asians/ Asian Americans you need to see yourselves positively and realize that there is a racial and social divide amongst us and if you fail to see that and falsely believe that all is fair and well, then you're just cheating yourselves.

angel nympho

08-21-2002, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 21 2002, 05:31 PM
Well, having a white bf and using the oxymoron angel with nympho plus the almost too randy cam pic as an Asian girl during this period of trendy oriental armcandy trophyism is one way of being the butt of all jokes. Now, while there is intrinsically nothing wrong with dating interracially in a racially fair world, the world that we live in is currently and has been for a long time unfairly led by Europeans due to self-classification as ominipotent superiors over people of color. As Asians/Asian Americans you have to realize that fact and understand that you have a responsibility to the type of people you look like to not embarass them but rather help them by not selling yourself out to others. This means that you have the right as fellow Americans to do and say what you want keeping in mind that your actions will have consequences good or bad. The problem these days is that a lot of people selfishly do what they like without thinking as if rebelling to the world. Getting back to your desire to be the butt of a joke or two, save it for yourself. There are plenty of things you can personally do to accomplish this; eg. you can go to school dressed in those cheong sams (http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/Article_Detail.asp?Article_ID=6273) or in a kimono everyday. Stick chopsticks in your hair and during lunch time take them out to eat french fries or sphaghetti with and without washing them stick it back in your hair for the European Americans to see. You can wear t-shirts from Abercrombie that mock Asians specifically Chinese and show your white friends how humble you are to spend your money on insulting yourself because when you make a fool of and laugh at yourself everyone can be your friend. When whites, blacks and hispanics call you Chinaman, Chink, Gook or whatever ingenious racial epithet they come up with you can reply "yeah, that's me and doncha fa get it." and join them in pulling your eyes up from the sides while chanting "ching chong chan" and making kung fu noises "uuuuh awwww, woh--oh--aw chuu!!!" Finish it off by presenting your new friends a wallet size pic of your Dad with buck tooth hanging from a tree branch that his car hit with his hands out; one holding laundry and the other holding a chinese to go box with the pagoda print and the caption "Sollee I dryving bad, I dereeva jaineese fewd and landaree kweek."
Or you could do some research and find out that Asians have been the butt of jokes for a very long time and even to this day, I mean take a look around you, do you see any positive Asian (male) images in Hollywood movies? Do you see any Asian models for Abercrumbie period? or any Asian male models for Old Navy?
What a rasict fucking bastard. What's wrong with my cam pic? Mad that you see something you can't have? So I'm dating a white guy. Oh shit, what a sellout I am. Just another Asian trophy for a white guy to show off to all his friends, right? I never said I desired to be the butt of jokes, I said that you shouldn't dish it if you can't take it. Fuck! What's wrong with you??? Have you ever seen a BLACK person in an Abercrombie ad? WHO FUCKING CARES???? I don't shop there, I just fully believe that if I WANTED to shop there, I COULD. Stop putting words in my fucking mouth, it's people like you in the Asian community that I cannot FUCKING STAND. People who see every little thing as an insult, and cannot understand that we don't NEED to be depicted as SUPERIOR. In THIS country, NOBODY is superior to anybody else, no matter how bad you WANT to be. If you don't want to be a minority, go someplace where you're not.

And everybody else... Now you see what I find offensive. Arrogance, not a sense of humor.

wylin

08-21-2002, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 21 2002, 09:31 AM
Well, having a white bf and using the oxymoron angel with nympho plus the almost too randy cam pic as an Asian girl during this period of trendy oriental armcandy trophyism is one way of being the butt of all jokes. Now, while there is intrinsically nothing wrong with dating interracially in a racially fair world, the world that we live in is currently and has been for a long time unfairly led by Europeans due to self-classification as ominipotent superiors over people of color. As Asians/Asian Americans you have to realize that fact and understand that you have a responsibility to the type of people you look like to not embarass them but rather help them by not selling yourself out to others. This means that you have the right as fellow Americans to do and say what you want keeping in mind that your actions will have consequences good or bad. The problem these days is that a lot of people selfishly do what they like without thinking as if rebelling to the world. Getting back to your desire to be the butt of a joke or two, save it for yourself. There are plenty of things you can personally do to accomplish this; eg. you can go to school dressed in those cheong sams (http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/Article_Detail.asp?Article_ID=6273) or in a kimono everyday. Stick chopsticks in your hair and during lunch time take them out to eat french fries or sphaghetti with and without washing them stick it back in your hair for the European Americans to see. You can wear t-shirts from Abercrombie that mock Asians specifically Chinese and show your white friends how humble you are to spend your money on insulting yourself because when you make a fool of and laugh at yourself everyone can be your friend. When whites, blacks and hispanics call you Chinaman, Chink, Gook or whatever ingenious racial epithet they come up with you can reply "yeah, that's me and doncha fa get it." and join them in pulling your eyes up from the sides while chanting "ching chong chan" and making kung fu noises "uuuuh awwww, woh--oh--aw chuu!!!" Finish it off by presenting your new friends a wallet size pic of your Dad with buck tooth hanging from a tree branch that his car hit with his hands out; one holding laundry and the other holding a chinese to go box with the pagoda print and the caption "Sollee I dryving bad, I dereeva jaineese fewd and landaree kweek."
Or you could do some research and find out that Asians have been the butt of jokes for a very long time and even to this day, I mean take a look around you, do you see any positive Asian (male) images in Hollywood movies? Do you see any Asian models for Abercrumbie period? or any Asian male models for Old Navy?
u will be seeing a positive male asian image (atleast animated) soon in the broadcast of initial D which is coming up. im sure Takumi Fujiwara, Keisuke and Ryosuke Takahashi, and company from the series are good enuff an asian male role model to you. gosh there be happy. =P

yah dont be so needing to be so political sumtimes its better just not to read into stuff and not care its better for all of us.

SunWuKong

08-21-2002, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 21 2002, 12:31 PM
Well, having a white bf and using the oxymoron angel with nympho plus the almost too randy cam pic as an Asian girl during this period of trendy oriental armcandy trophyism is one way of being the butt of all jokes. Now, while there is intrinsically nothing wrong with dating interracially in a racially fair world, the world that we live in is currently and has been for a long time unfairly led by Europeans due to self-classification as ominipotent superiors over people of color. As Asians/Asian Americans you have to realize that fact and understand that you have a responsibility to the type of people you look like to not embarass them but rather help them by not selling yourself out to others. This means that you have the right as fellow Americans to do and say what you want keeping in mind that your actions will have consequences good or bad. The problem these days is that a lot of people selfishly do what they like without thinking as if rebelling to the world. Getting back to your desire to be the butt of a joke or two, save it for yourself. There are plenty of things you can personally do to accomplish this; eg. you can go to school dressed in those cheong sams (http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/Article_Detail.asp?Article_ID=6273) or in a kimono everyday. Stick chopsticks in your hair and during lunch time take them out to eat french fries or sphaghetti with and without washing them stick it back in your hair for the European Americans to see. You can wear t-shirts from Abercrombie that mock Asians specifically Chinese and show your white friends how humble you are to spend your money on insulting yourself because when you make a fool of and laugh at yourself everyone can be your friend. When whites, blacks and hispanics call you Chinaman, Chink, Gook or whatever ingenious racial epithet they come up with you can reply "yeah, that's me and doncha fa get it." and join them in pulling your eyes up from the sides while chanting "ching chong chan" and making kung fu noises "uuuuh awwww, woh--oh--aw chuu!!!" Finish it off by presenting your new friends a wallet size pic of your Dad with buck tooth hanging from a tree branch that his car hit with his hands out; one holding laundry and the other holding a chinese to go box with the pagoda print and the caption "Sollee I dryving bad, I dereeva jaineese fewd and landaree kweek."
Or you could do some research and find out that Asians have been the butt of jokes for a very long time and even to this day, I mean take a look around you, do you see any positive Asian (male) images in Hollywood movies? Do you see any Asian models for Abercrumbie period? or any Asian male models for Old Navy?
just a reminder. it is completely possible to be militant without resorting to personal attacks. your freedom of expression here at yellowworld.org is absolutely contingent on the assumption that you practice responsible speech.

Arex

08-21-2002, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 21 2002, 03:05 PM
u will be seeing a positive male asian image (atleast animated) soon in the broadcast of initial D which is coming up.  im sure Takumi Fujiwara, Keisuke and Ryosuke Takahashi, and company from the series are good enuff an asian male role model to you. gosh there be happy. =P

yah dont be so needing to be so political sumtimes its better just not to read into stuff and not care its better for all of us.
By that, are you promoting ignorance as a "solution" to racial inequality? :huh: I can't really say that boycott's reading into things here. It's pretty blatant what they did. You'd certainly never see an A&F shirt with a caricature of an African picking cotton or tobacco.

And my desire to see a visible Asian American male role model certainly won't be satisfied by a cartoon character. Hell, we've had G-Force, Voltron, Robotech, etc. since I was a kid. Cartoon characters are just that--cartoon characters.

I'm not defending boycott's personal attacks, or his inflammatory style of educating people, but he's got a lot of good points (and a few not-so-good ones thrown in for good measure=P).

Alex

wylin

08-21-2002, 11:14 PM

im defending angel nympho's point of people being so over sensitive to everything. Yeh there is racial inequality especially in entertainment, so thats just lovely. Im not the activist type i dont really care personally either way if there is or is not representation. Why because i think i rather become sucessful and represent the asian male rolemodel Myself. Instead of wanting sum fruity young asian male actor to be my proof of equality i rather make equality myself by being sucessful.

I have personal experience w/ asian males not being cast as nething, one of my cousins is going thru this hez, a young asian male aspiring actor whose gotten minor roles on shows like popular (the asian nerd), and other random shows. I hear complaints from his family about how he gets type cast or cant get a good role, im like tuff shit. Same w/ the millions of other actors of other random races there are... alota that stuffs who u know and what are u known for.

Also what u buy is up to you, so what if the are racial its just dam cloths u wear on ur back. AF personaly is kinda ugly and not really my style but if u like it buy it. Not everything u do needs to be a political statement...

as for personal attacks this goes in general its pretty rude dont attack each other.

deez nuts

08-22-2002, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Arex@Aug 22 2002, 04:04 AM
It's pretty blatant what they did. You'd certainly never see an A&F shirt with a caricature of an African picking cotton or tobacco.

Blah you took my example from my old post! :P

boycott

08-22-2002, 01:13 PM

I'm sorry if I offended anyone especially the likes of open minded but oblivious to reality Asians who feel that the world is so fair and nice that they can go around dating whoever they'd like without giving a f..k to others around them. Gay couples started similarly but weren't as lucky as these Asian chicks who date whites and blacks who I imagine rarely get beaten up and called names on the street. If you do, well please share your experiences so maybe I can try to understand you people more. I feel that with Gay couples at least they aren't producing any offspring unlike interracial couples of whom some offspring grow up totally hating their Asian side thanks to the media, Hollywood, society's whites having sinophobia,etc...

boycott

08-22-2002, 01:24 PM

To wylin:
Even though you don't feel that it's important for Asians more specially Asian American males to be positively portrayed and presented on screen in movies and TV, if you'd stop to think about it you may find that it matters a whole lot. Subconciously, a lot of us feel icky and awkward seeing Asian males on TV with whites because Asian males have rarely been given a strong and charismatic role along side the dominant white characters. To your cousin I'd suggest getting roles for Asian American films unless he likes those minor nerd or typecasted roles because that's all he's going to get with the white media. What we need desperately is an Asian American Movie Industry to support people like your cousin and show the world that Asian Americans can act and can be effective actors with positive roles.
As for Abercrummy shirts, true you can wear anything you want but why would you wear their clothes after all the controversy. I can imagine if before the release of their shirts, ppl had some kind of affliction with wearing clothes targeting whites so maybe they could feel like whites or what not, but in light of all that and they can't shake the urge to wear their clothes, that's just plain ignorance and shameful self-attack due to self hate.

angel nympho

08-22-2002, 01:41 PM

Boycott. Dating a white guy does not put me in some fantasy world where I think there will never be a problem because of it. I've in fact had a few problems because of it, but none that were a big enough deal to me to see that it's not worth being with the guy I want to be with. Sorry that you feel threatened by the fact that "your" Asian women don't have qualms dating members of another race... Let me guess, you wouldn't date a white girl if your life depended on it? Because you're making it seem like I shouldn't be ALLOWED to. It's become so easy to roll comments about it off my shoulder that now it's just entertaining to watch all the Asian guys give us dirty looks when we walk down the street. Maybe they've never seen a happy Asian girl before. Oh yeah, and if you ever refer to me as "you people" again, I'll lose all remaining respect I have left for YOU people.

Did you ACTUALLY say "at least gay couples aren't producing offspring"???? I'm sorry, but that's just a really close minded comment. And I've never met anybody who hates their part Asian side. If anything, people really like being part whatever they are.

And if people want to wear whatever clothes they want to wear, I hardly think it's because they want to "feel white."

kasia

08-22-2002, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 22 2002, 06:14 AM
Not everything u do needs to be a political statement...

kinda like how not everything you do is a reflection on your integrity?

wylin

08-22-2002, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 22 2002, 12:24 PM
To wylin:
Even though you don't feel that it's important for Asians more specially Asian American males to be positively portrayed and presented on screen in movies and TV, if you'd stop to think about it you may find that it matters a whole lot. Subconciously, a lot of us feel icky and awkward seeing Asian males on TV with whites because Asian males have rarely been given a strong and charismatic role along side the dominant white characters. To your cousin I'd suggest getting roles for Asian American films unless he likes those minor nerd or typecasted roles because that's all he's going to get with the white media. What we need desperately is an Asian American Movie Industry to support people like your cousin and show the world that Asian Americans can act and can be effective actors with positive roles.
As for Abercrummy shirts, true you can wear anything you want but why would you wear their clothes after all the controversy. I can imagine if before the release of their shirts, ppl had some kind of affliction with wearing clothes targeting whites so maybe they could feel like whites or what not, but in light of all that and they can't shake the urge to wear their clothes, that's just plain ignorance and shameful self-attack due to self hate.
well i think he has alota problems finding rolls in general because he likes to portray himself as a christian boy and refuses alota rolls that he finds ungodly or what not also. just to fill u in on more info. Right now hez w/ a prominent asian actress's production company working on sum undisclosed APA project (we're not super close and all info i get from is when i see him at family gatherings).

everyones gonna be typecast for a while, thats my oppinion. I think since i live in so cal i see enuff possitive and negative portrayals of asian males in the media, We are the Student by Day, Gang member by night, rice rocket Racing/ drifting (yes thats a new cop stereotype drifters), rich cluber, brand advertisement, Gen Y/ X, Fad fallowing, shallow, smoking, drunken, kungfu knowing, group combat fighting group of immigrants portrayed by the media down here.

dude cloths is cloths, dude i remember as a kid i used to wear dukes and hazard cloths w/ the confederate flag on it and have confederate flag lunch boxes. =X

wylin

08-22-2002, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 22 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Aug 22 2002, 06:14 AM
Not everything u do needs to be a political statement...

kinda like how not everything you do is a reflection on your integrity?
i think everything u do infliuences someone else as long as sumone else sees it, hears it, reads it, etc. But u dont have to fallow sum kinda agenda. Im a firm believer. people yeh u can be political yes but shoot we're all ppl and we all have oppinions and u dont have to troll the party line all the time or just have to make everything u say sumthing so powerful and deep. thats kinda annoying in my book, just say stuff from ur heart and not from sum like i have to push this and that forward and wat ever else sumone else believes is Bullshiet.

or maybe im just bitter from debating w/ my hardcore democrat friend all day.

same w/ ur integrity, not everything i say is a reflection of my integrity... i crack a joke or be silly does that mean its part of my integrity maybe, depends how much u wanna read it what i just said.

its fun being silly and nonsensical. and the joy of not having political aspirations, activism, or affiliation.

good come bak kasia! =x

boycott

08-22-2002, 02:48 PM

Angel_nympho,
What I meant about gay people not making offsprings is that they can't with it other, I have nothing against gay people. In fact I think gay whites are much better people than straight whites since they are much nicer and courteous to everyone they meet instead of intimidatingly loud and aggressive and always belittling anyone not physically white despite the fact that you speak good English or not.
It sounds to me like the reason you choose to date white is because you have some hatred for Asian guys and I quote "Maybe they've never seen a happy Asian girl before. " Now either that is irony or straight out a confession. So I ask you why would they have never seen a happy Asian girl before? Are you implying that they as Asians aren't capable of keeping their Asian girlfriends happy? Do you think Asian men are just a bunch of backward thinking morons that can't handle anything less of a woman cooking, serving them up supper and cleaning the house? Well I have news for you not all Asians are like that, especially the Asian Americans born in this country or grew up here. Therefore, if you like to date whites like you like to date any other guy, that's fine, but if you're dating whites just so that you can enjoy getting dirty looks from Asian guys on the street because you hate being Asian or whatever, then it's wrong! If dirty looks are all you're getting consider yourself lucky. Five years ago, I went out with a beautiful blonde and these 5 whites almost got the best with us telling me to go back to my country and bring the "trash white whore with me cuz she's a shame to proud Americans." Luckily, there were some cops and those whites squirried away like scared rodents who knew how to flip the bird. Anyway, after that we decided it was for the best that we didn't see each other for both our safety, isn't that sad? Whites are so violent and voiceful when it comes to chinamens dating their women and nowadays they're dating ours. Sure, I shouldn't have a problem with it. I should sit back and just let things be right? You can date whoever you want right while I have to be careful about whites kicking my ass if I choose to date white girls. If I fight these whites, guess who'll go to jail and who get a slap on the white wrist? Thanks American Justice System! America, America, home of the homeless braves on every street corner. Everything is fair and good in fantasy land. Let's all hold hands and sing a song ...la..la..la...fa..di...dah...

wylin

08-22-2002, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 22 2002, 01:48 PM
Angel_nympho,
What I meant about gay people not making offsprings is that they can't with it other, I have nothing against gay people. In fact I think gay whites are much better people than straight whites since they are much nicer and courteous to everyone they meet instead of intimidatingly loud and aggressive and always belittling anyone not physically white despite the fact that you speak good English or not.
It sounds to me like the reason you choose to date white is because you have some hatred for Asian guys and I quote "Maybe they've never seen a happy Asian girl before. " Now either that is irony or straight out a confession. So I ask you why would they have never seen a happy Asian girl before? Are you implying that they as Asians aren't capable of keeping their Asian girlfriends happy? Do you think Asian men are just a bunch of backward thinking morons that can't handle anything less of a woman cooking, serving them up supper and cleaning the house? Well I have news for you not all Asians are like that, especially the Asian Americans born in this country or grew up here. Therefore, if you like to date whites like you like to date any other guy, that's fine, but if you're dating whites just so that you can enjoy getting dirty looks from Asian guys on the street because you hate being Asian or whatever, then it's wrong! If dirty looks are all you're getting consider yourself lucky. Five years ago, I went out with a beautiful blonde and these 5 whites almost got the best with us telling me to go back to my country and bring the "trash white whore with me cuz she's a shame to proud Americans." Luckily, there were some cops and those whites squirried away like scared rodents who knew how to flip the bird. Anyway, after that we decided it was for the best that we didn't see each other for both our safety, isn't that sad? Whites are so violent and voiceful when it comes to chinamens dating their women and nowadays they're dating ours. Sure, I shouldn't have a problem with it. I should sit back and just let things be right? You can date whoever you want right while I have to be careful about whites kicking my ass if I choose to date white girls. If I fight these whites, guess who'll go to jail and who get a slap on the white wrist? Thanks American Justice System! America, America, home of the homeless braves on every street corner. Everything is fair and good in fantasy land. Let's all hold hands and sing a song ...la..la..la...fa..di...dah...
dude do u live in like hick land or sumthing? like really i havent seen such overt racism in my life.... ppl preying upon interacial couples ?

deez nuts

08-22-2002, 03:06 PM

Yah man from my experience. You gotta free your mind sometimes and pick your battles.

SunWuKong

08-22-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 22 2002, 03:57 PM
i think everything u do infliuences someone else as long as sumone else sees it, hears it, reads it, etc. But u dont have to fallow sum kinda agenda. Im a firm believer. people yeh u can be political yes but shoot we're all ppl and we all have oppinions and u dont have to troll the party line all the time or just have to make everything u say sumthing so powerful and deep. thats kinda annoying in my book, just say stuff from ur heart and not from sum like i have to push this and that forward and wat ever else sumone else believes is Bullshiet.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i get the feeling that you're implying that very politically outspoken people are actually just being pretentious.

do you not think that it's entirely possible that some very politically active and politically minded people (not talking about politicians here) are actually "saying stuff from their hearts"? in my opinion, what drives them to be so political is that they in fact feel very strongly about their opinions. that's what drives them to "push this and that forward". obviously not all. but i believe that many if not most very politically active people who do not have a career actually in politics are being so outspoke because they are "speaking from their hearts".

SunWuKong

08-22-2002, 03:42 PM

angel nympho, all i got to say is that i hope boycott has not given you the impression that all asian guys are so bitter. perhaps he has reason to be, i don't know, i don't live his life. but most of us don't take it on as a personal issue that alot of asian girls date white guys.

wylin

08-22-2002, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 22 2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by wylin@Aug 22 2002, 03:57 PM
i think everything u do infliuences someone else as long as sumone else sees it, hears it, reads it, etc. But u dont have to fallow sum kinda agenda.  Im a firm believer. people yeh u can be political yes but shoot we're all ppl and we all have oppinions and u dont have to troll the party line all the time or just have to make everything u say sumthing so powerful and deep.  thats kinda annoying in my book, just say stuff from ur heart and not from sum like i have to push this and that forward and wat ever else sumone else believes is Bullshiet.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i get the feeling that you're implying that very politically outspoken people are actually just being pretentious.

do you not think that it's entirely possible that some very politically active and politically minded people (not talking about politicians here) are actually "saying stuff from their hearts"? in my opinion, what drives them to be so political is that they in fact feel very strongly about their opinions. that's what drives them to "push this and that forward". obviously not all. but i believe that many if not most very politically active people who do not have a career actually in politics are being so outspoke because they are "speaking from their hearts".
sun,

depends, sumtimes it annoys me and i find it just kinda tedious. I personaly just get annoyed by, my view is everyones pretty much owned and money controls and affects mostthings, throw lotsa money at sumthing change the world. same thing =X

sum people have a heart for politics sum dont i personally dont. no point to argue over stuff i dont really care for or against.

sumtimes stuffs better left unsaid!

angel nympho

08-22-2002, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 22 2002, 09:48 PM
Angel_nympho,
What I meant about gay people not making offsprings is that they can't with it other, I have nothing against gay people. In fact I think gay whites are much better people than straight whites since they are much nicer and courteous to everyone they meet instead of intimidatingly loud and aggressive and always belittling anyone not physically white despite the fact that you speak good English or not.
It sounds to me like the reason you choose to date white is because you have some hatred for Asian guys and I quote "Maybe they've never seen a happy Asian girl before. " Now either that is irony or straight out a confession. So I ask you why would they have never seen a happy Asian girl before? Are you implying that they as Asians aren't capable of keeping their Asian girlfriends happy? Do you think Asian men are just a bunch of backward thinking morons that can't handle anything less of a woman cooking, serving them up supper and cleaning the house? Well I have news for you not all Asians are like that, especially the Asian Americans born in this country or grew up here. Therefore, if you like to date whites like you like to date any other guy, that's fine, but if you're dating whites just so that you can enjoy getting dirty looks from Asian guys on the street because you hate being Asian or whatever, then it's wrong! If dirty looks are all you're getting consider yourself lucky. Five years ago, I went out with a beautiful blonde and these 5 whites almost got the best with us telling me to go back to my country and bring the "trash white whore with me cuz she's a shame to proud Americans." Luckily, there were some cops and those whites squirried away like scared rodents who knew how to flip the bird. Anyway, after that we decided it was for the best that we didn't see each other for both our safety, isn't that sad? Whites are so violent and voiceful when it comes to chinamens dating their women and nowadays they're dating ours. Sure, I shouldn't have a problem with it. I should sit back and just let things be right? You can date whoever you want right while I have to be careful about whites kicking my ass if I choose to date white girls. If I fight these whites, guess who'll go to jail and who get a slap on the white wrist? Thanks American Justice System! America, America, home of the homeless braves on every street corner. Everything is fair and good in fantasy land. Let's all hold hands and sing a song ...la..la..la...fa..di...dah...
Jeeze, kid, a little judgemental, are we? I've yet to see ANY white guys who are really that intimidatingly loud and aggressive and ALWAYS belittling everyone who's not physically white. Except on TV. So much for white people being glorified by the media. Oh, but gay whites, they're so much better, right? Who are you to classify everybody into these categories? That's no better than what you accuse white people of doing.

I don't have any hatred for Asian guys. I've actually dated a lot more Asian guys than white guys... Don't pretend like you know me because you've read a few comments I made. "Maybe they've never seen a happy Asian girl before..." Ummm... implying that maybe they've (they being people who can't accept the fact that interracial dating is a reality) had their own problems with their girls. Implying that perhaps they are just mad because I'm with a white guy and I'm actually HAPPY with him. Implying that perhaps the realization that an Asian girl CAN be happy with a white guy is just too much to take. Read into everything, do you? And hey, I never thought so before, but now I kinda AM starting to think that Asian men are a bunch of rasict bastards. Did I ever say that I am dating a white guy solely for the purpose of pissing anybody off... besides you, of course?

I don't hate being Asian, blah blah blah, how many times do I have to go into this? I hate people who give Asians a bad name... Because at least here in LA the most common stereotype I've come across is that Asian people are some of the most ethnocentric, racist, and close-minded individuals. *Shrug* Wonder how that happened....

Times have changed since 5 years ago. Interracial dating is widely accepted now... and if you're too scared of what other people think to be with the one you truly want to be with, maybe you don't deserve them afterall. Besides... here in LA... nobody really cares as much as you do. And if a few nasty comments or dirty looks are enough to scare you away from somebody you really like... then I'm sorry you're too afraid to take a risk that could potentially end up being totally worth it.

You're right, I CAN date whoever I want, and you can date whoever YOU want. And by the way... check the demographics. There's an awful lot of white people in prisons... compared to Asians. :lol:

And by the way, if trial ever came between you and some white kids who committed what we'd call a HATE CRIME... I'm fairly sure you'd win. Hate crimes don't make America happy.

For the record: I like being Asian. I wouldn't change it for the world.

Chris

08-22-2002, 06:08 PM

Boycott: I have to agreed with Nympho on this one. Why are you keeping subdivide into groups? I mean if my straight what friends or gay white friend saw this they will be so offended. I have never dicriminate with anyone. Yes Boycott. I dated across the boards. Black, White, Spanish, Greek, Turk, whatver and everything in between. I just prefer Asian guys. Gosh the way you put things make you sound very bitter. I for one am not bitter over anything. You make things sound like I don't care. Rememeber who organize those boycott and rally? I did along with other people. I got offended with those T-Shirt I put a stand to it. You make me sound like I don't care issues. I feel like I am more racially sensitive than you are. Remember action speak louder than words.

boycott

08-23-2002, 03:12 AM

I'm sorry if I seem bitter, but I can't help be how and who I am. I'm a product of my environment and I admit I'm not as emotionally forgiving as most ppl and can't see past the skin color just quite yet. However, in a sense I'm glad that there are ppl out there who can, you guys are the ones that keep riots from happening.
Angel_nymphoI've yet to see ANY white guys who are really that intimidatingly loud and aggressive and ALWAYS belittling everyone who's not physically white. Except on TV. You live in LA and you've never experienced that? Yeah right? Looks like someone's in denial or totally oblivious to racism towards them. Next you're going to tell me you've never experienced racism from anyone. I hate people who give Asians a bad name... Try looking into the mirror when you say that. Here in SF, Asians are stereotyped for not supporting the Asian community, being highly impressionable and self-hating, selfishly arrogant and never caring about what others think about them or their actions, *Shrug* Wonder how that happened....Times have changed since 5 years ago. Interracial dating is widely accepted now... Accepted by who? Your parents accept the fact that you're interracially dating? I bet you and most Asian girls keep their interracial relationships secret or at least from the parents.
You're right, I CAN date whoever I want, and you can date whoever YOU want. And by the way... check the demographics. There's an awful lot of white people in prisons... compared to Asians. For once I agree with you, and I ask that you think about why that is. Whether it's because the more violent and troubled ones end up in jail and the peaceful and hardworking ones stay away from jail or is it that some mystical force put ppl where they are. And by the way, if trial ever came between you and some white kids who committed what we'd call a HATE CRIME... I'm fairly sure you'd win. Hate crimes don't make America happy. You're fairly sure, but that's not enough. Besides you're still young and probably don't understand the social dynamics of color in America until you've take a handful of Asian American Studies classes like I have.
Chris:
I'm glad that you aren't bitter over anything and are active enough to organize boycotts,etc... I for one am very bitter at the current situation of white supremacy over other minorities in America, esp. California where Asians and other minorities outnumber whites. With action speak louder than words, maybe next time I experience a racial incident I should kick some ass instead of just talking. The whole thing with Abercrummy shouldn't have even been an issue if Asians would just stay out of that store. As for the Asians that work there, I think they aren't too brite either, probably don't care at all about Asian issues and just need a part time job serving racists like the past yellow yes-men.

SunWuKong

08-23-2002, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 23 2002, 05:12 AM
You're right, I CAN date whoever I want, and you can date whoever YOU want. And by the way... check the demographics. There's an awful lot of white people in prisons... compared to Asians. For once I agree with you, and I ask that you think about why that is. Whether it's because the more violent and troubled ones end up in jail and the peaceful and hardworking ones stay away from jail or is it that some mystical force put ppl where they are.
it's not a mystical force, and the violent vs. peaceful people reason is not enough to justify why there're alot more white people in prisons than Asian people.

um, it's really very simple you know. Asian people in America, violent AND peaceful, number to less than 5% of the American population...

wylin

08-23-2002, 08:26 AM

hmm, nehows i think we all have encounter racism, me, angel nympho and such. But from growing up down in southern california, people are relatively tollerant of what goes on. Most of the racism she and i probably have encountered is intra-asian nationality racism. Since shez korean and from orange county im sure shez encountered the vietnamese people goin oh dumb skanky koreans and seen vice versa, the chinese ppl act all high and mighty and say stuff like oh dum koreans, dam koreans, or just make fun of her and Etc. shez just more tollerant then u at this point. We're all human beings remember and who u fall in love w/ shouldnt be dictated by sumone else.

Irvine itself is a panacea like community made up of serene surroundings, im sure thats affected her mentality. Not everyones some flag burning i hate the world of the oppressor asian firebrand. Maybe thats why she has a non-cheleant attitude like that?

not everyones the same as u and u cant expect everyone just conform and fight the mysterious oppressor....

also im pretty much in same camp as her but then again i went to a school w/ a 40-50% APA population and had clubs like ASIANS AGAINST Appathy...and every day was like clubbing and import show-off combined w/ highschool aka. UC irvine =P

stop being so petty we're al human beings white blavk wat not, people being so "millitant" does nothing, stop talking bout this and that and act instead. If u feel wat she is doing is wrong fine...go lobby and bring back Anti-misegination laws so that races cant mix, become millitant and take away the rights of those who those choices. step backwards.

Chris

08-23-2002, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 23 2002, 10:12 AM
Chris:
I'm glad that you aren't bitter over anything and are active enough to organize boycotts,etc... I for one am very bitter at the current situation of white supremacy over other minorities in America, esp. California where Asians and other minorities outnumber whites. With action speak louder than words, maybe next time I experience a racial incident I should kick some ass instead of just talking. The whole thing with Abercrummy shouldn't have even been an issue if Asians would just stay out of that store. As for the Asians that work there, I think they aren't too brite either, probably don't care at all about Asian issues and just need a part time job serving racists like the past yellow yes-men.
Yes it is sad that the majority of us don't really care about the issues but the one of us that do care we are speaking for our people. Yes I think that we still have long ways but I remember how much progress we so thus far. People forget but the ones that remember will keep this alive. So the Asian there choose to work there. It their choice, If they thier clothes it there choice. But for you and me, We know what better and will not the buy their stuff.

angel nympho

08-23-2002, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 23 2002, 10:12 AM
I'm sorry if I seem bitter, but I can't help be how and who I am.  I'm a product of my environment and I admit I'm not as emotionally forgiving as most ppl and can't see past the skin color just quite yet. However, in a sense I'm glad that there are ppl out there who can, you guys are the ones that keep riots from happening.
Angel_nymphoI've yet to see ANY white guys who are really that intimidatingly loud and aggressive and ALWAYS belittling everyone who's not physically white. Except on TV. You live in LA and you've never experienced that? Yeah right? Looks like someone's in denial or totally oblivious to racism towards them. Next you're going to tell me you've never experienced racism from anyone. I hate people who give Asians a bad name... Try looking into the mirror when you say that. Here in SF, Asians are stereotyped for not supporting the Asian community, being highly impressionable and self-hating, selfishly arrogant and never caring about what others think about them or their actions, *Shrug* Wonder how that happened....Times have changed since 5 years ago. Interracial dating is widely accepted now... Accepted by who? Your parents accept the fact that you're interracially dating? I bet you and most Asian girls keep their interracial relationships secret or at least from the parents.
You're right, I CAN date whoever I want, and you can date whoever YOU want. And by the way... check the demographics. There's an awful lot of white people in prisons... compared to Asians. For once I agree with you, and I ask that you think about why that is. Whether it's because the more violent and troubled ones end up in jail and the peaceful and hardworking ones stay away from jail or is it that some mystical force put ppl where they are. And by the way, if trial ever came between you and some white kids who committed what we'd call a HATE CRIME... I'm fairly sure you'd win. Hate crimes don't make America happy. You're fairly sure, but that's not enough. Besides you're still young and probably don't understand the social dynamics of color in America until you've take a handful of Asian American Studies classes like I have.
Chris:
I'm glad that you aren't bitter over anything and are active enough to organize boycotts,etc... I for one am very bitter at the current situation of white supremacy over other minorities in America, esp. California where Asians and other minorities outnumber whites. With action speak louder than words, maybe next time I experience a racial incident I should kick some ass instead of just talking. The whole thing with Abercrummy shouldn't have even been an issue if Asians would just stay out of that store. As for the Asians that work there, I think they aren't too brite either, probably don't care at all about Asian issues and just need a part time job serving racists like the past yellow yes-men.
Are you seriously saying that EVERY SINGLE white person you have encountered CONSTANTLY belittles you for your race? There's an awful lot of whites out there fighting the cause against rasicm, I hope you realize that before you go out and start shooting at people. And YES, I live in LA... I don't get shit thrown at me for being Asian... Occasionally, sure, I've experienced my share of racism, but there's been an overwhelmingly larger amount of tolerance than oppression in my life. Don't tell me I'm in denial. All I was pointing out is that stereotyping whites as "intimidatingly loud and aggressive" is only adding fuel to the fire. Asians who flame whites are a lot of the reason non-Asians think the things they think about us. You're not supporting your own cause. I'll tell you without a doubt that the vast majority of racism I've observed has come from other Asians... whether they're being racist against other Asians or whites. I've found that a large number of whites are really careful not to offend anyone these days. Being politically correct to the extreme has become the norm.

Well if you think I'm giving Asians a bad name, why don't you come out to LA and see who gets the shit kicked out of them. And I guess you were right on one count: I don't give a FUCK what people think about my actions. It's hard enough to be a minority growing up in a world of limited tolerance without having the ignorance be coming from those who are SUPPOSED to be in the same boat as me. Call me self-hating if you want, but let me just say again that my ethnicity has not exactly been the root of my problems. I don't know why that puts me in your "highly impressionable, selfishly arrogant" category, but if it does, so be it.

And NO, I don't keep my interracial dating from my parents. They like the fact that I know enough to choose guys based on their personalities and the way they treat me over their skin color. And for those who DO keep it a secret... it's not hard to see why. Because Asians are obviously not very accepting of the fact that other races even deserve to exist.

To tell you the truth, nobody really goes out looking for trouble. So if people randomly start shit with you, it probably had something to do with that look on your face when you looked at them. The look that is easily recognized as a threat. I know an awful lot of white people, and none of them are threatened by the site of an Asian man with a white woman. If anything, they are threatened by the sight of a group of Asian guys giving them the "Asian stare-down" from across the street. Overall, I've found that, except in a few extreme cases, if you are accepting of others, they will be accepting of you.

Just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't know things about the world we live in. I know that it's not a safe world for any of us... But I also know that a little bit of "childish innocence" when it comes to looking at other people is often something more people need to have. Stop looking at the color of your skin, stop looking at differences, and realize that we all have a lot more in common than we'd like to admit.

You can't learn everything in life from a class.

angel nympho

08-23-2002, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by wylin@Aug 23 2002, 03:26 PM
hmm, nehows i think we all have encounter racism, me, angel nympho and such. But from growing up down in southern california, people are relatively tollerant of what goes on. Most of the racism she and i probably have encountered is intra-asian nationality racism. Since shez korean and from orange county im sure shez encountered the vietnamese people goin oh dumb skanky koreans and seen vice versa, the chinese ppl act all high and mighty and say stuff like oh dum koreans, dam koreans, or just make fun of her and Etc. shez just more tollerant then u at this point. We're all human beings remember and who u fall in love w/ shouldnt be dictated by sumone else.

Irvine itself is a panacea like community made up of serene surroundings, im sure thats affected her mentality. Not everyones some flag burning i hate the world of the oppressor asian firebrand. Maybe thats why she has a non-cheleant attitude like that?

not everyones the same as u and u cant expect everyone just conform and fight the mysterious oppressor....

also im pretty much in same camp as her but then again i went to a school w/ a 40-50% APA population and had clubs like ASIANS AGAINST Appathy...and every day was like clubbing and import show-off combined w/ highschool aka. UC irvine =P

stop being so petty we're al human beings white blavk wat not, people being so "millitant" does nothing, stop talking bout this and that and act instead. If u feel wat she is doing is wrong fine...go lobby and bring back Anti-misegination laws so that races cant mix, become millitant and take away the rights of those who those choices. step backwards.
Thank you, wylin. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.

From the outside, people see Irvine as "rich, racist kids," but those on the inside think they know better. What seems to be tolerance on the outside, is actually a lot more brutal when you really get to the inside of people's minds. Going to high school in a world where if you were popular with the whites, the Asians hated you, and if you were popular with the Asians, it was your duty to hate the whites. For the record... Most of my friends were Asian. Despite our tendency to stray from the dark-color wearing, never smiling, trend, we were fully accepted by the Asian crowd. The only difference was that instead of engaging in racist activities, we just watched from the outside and realized the stupidity of such activities. Most of those Asians who went out white-bashing were avid church-goers. It just made me really sad. That's why I've grown up knowing that fighting against racism doesn't necessarily mean promoting ethnocentrism. Maybe sometimes I take things too far, also, but I at least know the difference between tolerance and rasicm.

But you know what? Over the course of the last few years... I've noticed that things just aren't the same anymore. Irvine is no longer a bunch of "rich, racist kids." Nope, those kids have grown older, moved on to college or wherever else... In the high schools now I see a lot more whites hanging out in the "Asian hut" and who was popular with the Asians are now popular with the whites, as well. What upsets me now is that those kids from years past... are now the adults that make up our nation. So, boycott, maybe I am young... but maybe that's not a bad thing.

And wylin. What you said about UCI... couldn't agree with you more. *Sigh*

kimpossible

08-23-2002, 03:12 PM

Maybe it's time for me to make more little hapas, if race mixing is what's getting his undies in a bunch.

SunWuKong

08-23-2002, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 03:59 PM
Because Asians are obviously not very accepting of the fact that other races even deserve to exist.
i agree with most of what you're saying. but this is really unfair. you know as well as i do that most asian people are not as bitter as boycott.

angel nympho

08-23-2002, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 23 2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 03:59 PM
Because Asians are obviously not very accepting of the fact that other races even deserve to exist.
i agree with most of what you're saying. but this is really unfair. you know as well as i do that most asian people are not as bitter as boycott.
true. it was harsh, but this guy ignores everything i say unless its harsh. but u guys get the gist of what im saying, right? i dont mean it to be that extreme, but i just wanted to point out that i've encounted a lot more asians who think this way than any other race... and i mean like, mommies and daddies who teach us that nobody's good enough... ya know?

SunWuKong

08-23-2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 06:01 PM
and i mean like, mommies and daddies who teach us that nobody's good enough... ya know?
what do you mean? are you talking about asian parents pushing their kids to always be doing better than they're doing?

angel nympho

08-23-2002, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 23 2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 06:01 PM
and i mean like, mommies and daddies who teach us that nobody's good enough... ya know?
what do you mean? are you talking about asian parents pushing their kids to always be doing better than they're doing?
asian parents punishing their kids for dating outside their race.

either way.. how did this go from a discussion about abercrombie clothes to one about interracial dating?

wylin

08-23-2002, 06:04 PM

militant yellow jihad asian american power struggle! made it go from cloths to ranting! and also flaming

SunWuKong

08-23-2002, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 23 2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 23 2002, 06:01 PM
and i mean like, mommies and daddies who teach us that nobody's good enough... ya know?
what do you mean? are you talking about asian parents pushing their kids to always be doing better than they're doing?
asian parents punishing their kids for dating outside their race.

either way.. how did this go from a discussion about abercrombie clothes to one about interracial dating?
we have mr. boycott to thank for that. :rolleyes:

hahhah boycott i'm just playing with you. state your point of view, just try to tone down the personal attacks.

boycott

08-24-2002, 01:36 AM

Wow, I'm highly impressed to see that all of you have such good heads on your shoulders and are quite reasonable persons. Most ppl I've encountered before were so easy to resort to stupid meaningless name calling like "racist" or "jealous" which was typical of ppl who can't make rational arguments nor count past the number of countable parts on their body. Anyway, I surmise that due to Abercrummie's racist nature we somehow couldn't talk about them without talking about race and along with that, talking about interracial dating is just second nature. To add to that, today at the Powell St. Station in SF, I saw an Asian guy with a quite beautiful white woman going down the escalators. Usually, you see these Asian guys and they're with less than stellar looking white woman (ok pretty ungood looking), but today I was like wow. I'm beginning to see more and more of the AM/WF couples and I feel that someday I'll see a lot of this. The reason being is that white women are sick of seeing white men with asian women so they are finally opening their minds to give asian men a chance and their own men a taste of their own medicine. I just hope that for AMs who take out WFs that they don't have bad experiences in public by racist ppl who have a hard time accepting the Asian man with a beautiful white woman. I'm totally worried that racist whites working at restaurants and department stores will either refuse them service or give them awful service and spoil the dates they go on most of the time if not all. This is not an exaggeration. I'm assuming the same thing happens in asia to white men who date asian women. Unfortunately, there aren't too many white men in asia to see that whereas in America there are lots of Asian and Asian American men who are getting chances to date white women and will be subjected to it.

SunWuKong

08-24-2002, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 24 2002, 03:36 AM
Wow, I'm highly impressed to see that all of you have such good heads on your shoulders and are quite reasonable persons.  Most ppl I've encountered before were so easy to resort to stupid meaningless name calling like "racist" or "jealous" which was typical of ppl who can't make rational arguments nor count past the number of countable parts on their body.

boycott, as long as you tone down the personal attacks, i'm sure people around here will do the same. it's all about mutual respect for each individual.

Originally posted by boycott@Aug 24 2002, 03:36 AM

To add to that, today at the Powell St. Station in SF, I saw an Asian guy with a quite beautiful white woman going down the escalators. Usually, you see these Asian guys and they're with less than stellar looking white woman (ok pretty ungood looking), but today I was like wow. I'm beginning to see more and more of the AM/WF couples and I feel that someday I'll see a lot of this.

to tell you the truth, in my own personal dating experience, i've never encountered problems before for being asian. i have dated white girls, asian girls, and a middle eastern girl. the middle eastern girl (persian) happens to be to this day the most beautiful girl i have ever seen, not to mention probably the nicest person i know. she is also taller than me. and i actually know more asian girls who won't date non-asian guys than asian girls who won't date asian guys. so yeah, i know that sometimes the cards are stacked against asian guys, but really it's not as bad as you think. and the most important thing, after all, is to have a good attitude and project confidence.

kimpossible

08-24-2002, 04:34 PM

boycott, you can think and post pretty much whatever you want. While I wouldn't interpret all our tolerance as complete agreeance, I think you can feel free to rant in the Rant Room without us trying to silence you. Why you and angel are going at each other tooth and nail, I don't know because if push came to shove I think you would both be on the same side.

Plus, we're Asian American. The issues your presenting are relevant to all of us. The problem here seems to be one of presentation, charisma and leadership. Angry ranting is easy; creating unity and cultivating camaraderie are difficult skills to master.

kimpossible

08-24-2002, 04:35 PM

Replace "your" with "you're" in the above

typo :rolleyes:

karizma

08-24-2002, 04:44 PM

>> wow...where have i been? haha oopsis...

>> alright you guys remember those shirts and sweaters and little gif images of the "got rice" guy? the little asian man with slanted eyes, sporting a rice farmer's hat, contently eating his bowl of rice with chopsticks? this was indeed an image conjured up by asians...the image was plastered over just about every homepage on asian avenue...apartment107...yada yada yada...sometimes edited to say phrases like "azn pryde" or "powered by rice"...did anyone find this offensive? nope...but when a&f came out with wong bros. the whole asian community was in an uproar because white people were behind the whole thing and they arent allowed to make fun of us...but hey...we can make fun of ourselves!!! shiet...double standards strike again.

>> i do not agree with boycott's crusader-ish ways of damning every asian that does not agree with his views...he is no better than the ones who immediately coin him as "jealous" or "racist" because he is in turn calling us "oblivious" and "ignorant".

>> sf asians in my opinion are some of the most self-loving asians ive ever met...they are proud of being asian and it is very, very apparent. so proud in fact that they do not associate with whites or people of any other race for that matter...which i do not agree with. where you got the idea that they dont enjoy being asian is beyond me...

>> interracial dating...anyone who doesnt condone this is, in my eyes, a tad old-fashioned. with the mixture of races increasing and continually becoming more and more diverse so does the chance of hooking up with someone outside your race. ive dated a white guy before...no it wasnt because i thought he was superior to me, no its not because i thought he was better than asians, no it wasnt because i hated the fact that i was asian so much that i felt the need to immerse myself in his culture...it was simply chance that i happened to meet him, like him, and date him...would i date another white guy? yes...will it happen again anytime soon? probably not because ive come to crave the similarities and common ground i share with asians.

>> i agree with angel nympho when she said she hated asians who make the rest of the asian community look bad. in high school i encountered asians who seemed to be shouting asian pride at the top of their lungs...now as much as i like to see asians instilled with a sense of pride for their race i felt they didnt know the meaning behind the word "pride" but they shouted it for the sole reason of claiming they were better than everyone else. call me an idealist but to me i feel that every race should be equal...its claiming that we're superior to everyone else that gets us in trouble...KKK ring a bell? i understand that as a person of a certain ethnicity you have a reason to think that your race is better than others since you belong to it...i just think youve got to have an understanding of other races...open minds people...open minds.

deez nuts

08-24-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by karizma@Aug 24 2002, 06:44 PM
>> wow...where have i been? haha oopsis...

>> alright you guys remember those shirts and sweaters and little gif images of the "got rice" guy? the little asian man with slanted eyes, sporting a rice farmer's hat, contently eating his bowl of rice with chopsticks? this was indeed an image conjured up by asians...the image was plastered over just about every homepage on asian avenue...apartment107...yada yada yada...sometimes edited to say phrases like "azn pryde" or "powered by rice"...did anyone find this offensive? nope...but when a&f came out with wong bros. the whole asian community was in an uproar because white people were behind the whole thing and they arent allowed to make fun of us...but hey...we can make fun of ourselves!!! shiet...double standards strike again.

I disagree with you on this one, karizma. Because when Asians do it, it's empowerment for ourselves whether it's in a comic nature or not. When others do it, it's a totally different ball game.

It's the same when black people use the "N" word amongst black people, but if a non-black or someone not close to them uses it, it's perceived differently.

Double standard I agree to an extent, but it would be totally different if I used the word chink on these forums as opposed to one of my white friends coming on here and using the word chink. And I bet if he used it, even if I'm tight with him, you guys would jump down his throat, because you don't know him.

karizma

08-24-2002, 05:01 PM

>> i had a best friend who was white...she called me chink i called her white bread and cracker...did we have problems with it? nope...none at all. we laughed about it and it was a-ok

deez nuts

08-24-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by karizma@Aug 24 2002, 07:01 PM
>> i had a best friend who was white...she called me chink i called her white bread and cracker...did we have problems with it? nope...none at all. we laughed about it and it was a-ok
Because she was your friend, Woot. There's a difference with that and some random non-asian_001 calling you that. My non-asians call me chink and coolie and call my black friends the N word.

But what if someone you didn't know called you a chink? That's essentially what the people at A&F did or implied by those t-shirts. But instead of one person doing it a whole corperation did it. And the argument with they have asian designers working there is weak.

Hehe I'm done and out of here, if I have to stay any longer at this damn hospital I'll go nuts. And I think my friends will starve to death. Time to eat and get drunk.

Have a good weekend guys and gals. And cheer up amietron would ya, woot?

kasia

08-25-2002, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by karizma@Aug 24 2002, 11:44 PM
but when a&f came out with wong bros. the whole asian community was in an uproar because white people were behind the whole thing and they arent allowed to make fun of us...but hey...we can make fun of ourselves!!! shiet...double standards strike again.

would it really be correct to call it a double standard, though? would it be a double standard for blacks to say that they can call each other "nigger" but to find it offensive when we, as asians, print shirts which call them the same? further, wouldn't it be more unreasonable if we were doing so in an effort to profit and not simply for comic relief? keep in mind, a&f's clothes are tailored to whites--they don't make asian sizes as do other stores such as benetton, esprit, polo, gap, etc., and their ads, unlike most other brands, do not contain any asians.

re: angel_nympho and karizma's comment about asian pride: i can see why one might hate on other asians because they have too much pride which may, in turn, make them come across as ethnocentric and give asians a "bad name". i guess, inevitably, their actions will reflect on us as asian-americans (whether this is fair is another issue.) however, could it be that their overzealous pride is some sort of reaction from their treatment by the dominant race? i felt a lot of asian pride in high school solely because it was during that time that i finally realized that being asian was acceptable. for example, it wasn't until high school that i met other asians who enjoyed watching asian films and listening to chinese music. prior to that, my white friends thought it was "weird". similarly, i think our webmaster has gone through the same thing where he experienced a lot of pride when he finally accepted his being korean-american after years of being told by his white friends that he was cool because he wasn't like the other asians.

as for personal attacks--not acceptable and only serves to weaken one's argument.

Chris

08-25-2002, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by karizma@Aug 24 2002, 11:44 PM

>> sf asians in my opinion are some of the most self-loving asians ive ever met...they are proud of being asian and it is very, very apparent. so proud in fact that they do not associate with whites or people of any other race for that matter...which i do not agree with. where you got the idea that they dont enjoy being asian is beyond me...

Wow I must be a minortiy on this issue because most of my frineds that are asian they do associate with white and other races. I think you might be right in general about the self loving part. I really get annoyed with the closemindedness of some of my other asian friends.

angel nympho

08-25-2002, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 25 2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by karizma@Aug 24 2002, 11:44 PM
but when a&f came out with wong bros. the whole asian community was in an uproar because white people were behind the whole thing and they arent allowed to make fun of us...but hey...we can make fun of ourselves!!! shiet...double standards strike again.

would it really be correct to call it a double standard, though? would it be a double standard for blacks to say that they can call each other "nigger" but to find it offensive when we, as asians, print shirts which call them the same? further, wouldn't it be more unreasonable if we were doing so in an effort to profit and not simply for comic relief? keep in mind, a&f's clothes are tailored to whites--they don't make asian sizes as do other stores such as benetton, esprit, polo, gap, etc., and their ads, unlike most other brands, do not contain any asians.

re: angel_nympho and karizma's comment about asian pride: i can see why one might hate on other asians because they have too much pride which may, in turn, make them come across as ethnocentric and give asians a "bad name". i guess, inevitably, their actions will reflect on us as asian-americans (whether this is fair is another issue.) however, could it be that their overzealous pride is some sort of reaction from their treatment by the dominant race? i felt a lot of asian pride in high school solely because it was during that time that i finally realized that being asian was acceptable. for example, it wasn't until high school that i met other asians who enjoyed watching asian films and listening to chinese music. prior to that, my white friends thought it was "weird". similarly, i think our webmaster has gone through the same thing where he experienced a lot of pride when he finally accepted his being korean-american after years of being told by his white friends that he was cool because he wasn't like the other asians.

as for personal attacks--not acceptable and only serves to weaken one's argument.
I see where you guys are coming from with this argument, but really, how can we say one clothing line is "tailored" to any race. When something gets put on the shelves for public consumption, it's really out there for ANYBODY to buy. They don't try to persuade anybody not to buy their clothes. Just because ads out there don't have any Asians in them doesn't mean that the company is against Asians wearing their clothes. Honestly, I can see how big companies would want to aim their advertising so they could appeal to as many people as possible... It would be good public relations for them to try to be a little more diverse, but in all fairness, I do see SOME sort of logic in the logic in ad campains.
Anyhoo, I'm kinda digressing. Ummm... I just mean to say that when White people see us Asians empowering ourselves by this symbol of a chinaman eating rice... sure it looks a little stereotypical, but if it's so commonly accepted by us, why are they not allowed to print this commonly seen and used symbol on a shirt? Suddenly because it's got their label on it, it's controversial.

karizma

08-25-2002, 04:46 PM

>> theres nothing wrong with having pride in your ethnicity...i myself scribbled "AP" or "azn pryde" once in a while on binders and whatnot throughout freshman year...but it got annoying because of the fact that most of the people who said it or wrote it or thought it...really didnt know what the meaning of pride meant. they just said it simply because it was the "cool" thing to do not because they were proud to be who they were...most knew absolutely nothing of their heritage...yea...it irked me.

>> alright im a little emotionally distraught right now so umm...continue this later yea? toodles...

angel nympho

08-25-2002, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by karizma@Aug 25 2002, 11:46 PM
>> theres nothing wrong with having pride in your ethnicity...i myself scribbled "AP" or "azn pryde" once in a while on binders and whatnot throughout freshman year...but it got annoying because of the fact that most of the people who said it or wrote it or thought it...really didnt know what the meaning of pride meant. they just said it simply because it was the "cool" thing to do not because they were proud to be who they were...most knew absolutely nothing of their heritage...yea...it irked me.

>> alright im a little emotionally distraught right now so umm...continue this later yea? toodles...
I agree with you. I grew up in the time when shouting "ASIAN PRIDE" suddenly made you part of a group... so you said it without a second thought. It just bothers me because, growing up, the phrase "asian pride" seemed to be equated with dark colored clothes, souped up cars, TyPiNg lYk DiSs, staring down ANYTHING that moved, and you know... scary stuff like that. Most of them spoke broken Asian languages to each other cuz they wanted to talk shit on the white people around them, or just to sound cool... and nobody even WANTED to know anything about their culture. They made the phrase into some kind of.... gang sign. LOL... not literally, but you know what I mean.
Eventually they banned it at my junior high to write anything about your ethnicity on anything... or shout it at other people... people wouldn't stop starting fights.

SunWuKong

08-25-2002, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Aug 25 2002, 05:12 PM
I see where you guys are coming from with this argument, but really, how can we say one clothing line is "tailored" to any race. When something gets put on the shelves for public consumption, it's really out there for ANYBODY to buy. They don't try to persuade anybody not to buy their clothes. Just because ads out there don't have any Asians in them doesn't mean that the company is against Asians wearing their clothes. Honestly, I can see how big companies would want to aim their advertising so they could appeal to as many people as possible... It would be good public relations for them to try to be a little more diverse, but in all fairness, I do see SOME sort of logic in the logic in ad campains.
Anyhoo, I'm kinda digressing. Ummm... I just mean to say that when White people see us Asians empowering ourselves by this symbol of a chinaman eating rice... sure it looks a little stereotypical, but if it's so commonly accepted by us, why are they not allowed to print this commonly seen and used symbol on a shirt? Suddenly because it's got their label on it, it's controversial.
yes businesses want as many people to buy from them as possible. but there are different demographies of people and sometimes their interests are not the same. for example, men spend more money on beer than women. this is why beer ads have scantily dressed women in them. beer companies do not try to sell their products to women. they mostly just care about the male market. the asian demography is very very small (less than 5% of the population). what this means is that asian people get ignored and marginalized. if a business think that something will sell to the white public, it won't care if it won't sell to the asian public. and sometimes they can get carried away and have the "what can we get away with" mentality like A&F.