Putting the Fear of Asian Male into Them

[achtungbaby]

Some whites males...complain about racism and xenophobia...but then they continue to be drawn to Asians like a magnet, because still they think we are on the average less intimidating than their own white people. They think we would never physical hurt them, and they can see that in our demeanors.

In other words, they are not afraid of us, no matter what we do. -- a post from a message board.

Some thoughts on being an Asian American male:

When it comes down to it, no one should tell everyone who we are but *us*. This is not an attempt to be divisive and separate us from Asian females, who, quite honestly, have lead the empowering of the Asian American community, in terms of activism, visibility, and scholarship.

But just as there are issues particular to the Asian female that she alone should address, it's time that the Asian male began more seriously to establish an agenda, an identity, a voice; when Asian males begin to make others afraid, not necessarily just by physically retaliating when we?re being disrespected (but doing so is important), but to make others afraid economically, politically and culturally as well.

(note - I was angry when I wrote this but I remember the issue was something quite a lot of Asian males responded to in a similar way)...

[kimpossible]

Would you say you're more interested in making others afraid as a direct, intended effect? or is the issue more for Asian males to empower themselves which would make 'them' afraid as a side effect?

And who is them? I didn't want to assume white males only.

[amietron]

yeah, what about the black guys?

[Hito]

I am used to people *Being* afraid of me because of how I look.
I used to feel bad about it, but now i can give a damn.
Sometimes it can be fun to make a sudden move and watch those around me jump. B)

[angel nympho]

Why is it so important that you are feared? Isn't it more important to strive to be respected?

[mrazntre]

no respect given. no fear placed.


if we take a cultural look into Asian society as a whole, it is easily pointed out that .... fear leads to respect. Not too much fear, yet just enough to keep all those around you honest.



Sun Tzu.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by mrazntre@Sep 11 2002, 05:18 AM
no respect given. no fear placed.


if we take a cultural look into Asian society as a whole, it is easily pointed out that .... fear leads to respect. Not too much fear, yet just enough to keep all those around you honest.



Sun Tzu.
I'd rather be respected for my achievements and merits than because im "scary."

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 10 2002, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by mrazntre@Sep 11 2002, 05:18 AM
no respect given. no fear placed.


if we take a cultural look into Asian society as a whole, it is easily pointed out that .... fear leads to respect. Not too much fear, yet just enough to keep all those around you honest.



Sun Tzu.
I'd rather be respected for my achievements and merits than because im "scary."
And certainly this is the mature/civilized thing to do, and to not let the testosterone get to our heads.

But guys can only take so much, especially in a society that glorifies a stud who can stand up for himself.

I should probably give some background on my original post: it was from over a year ago in another asian forum, and a guy started a thread about how sick and tired he was of feeling powerless, and the frustration that comes with having to deal with people always having the initial impression that it's okay to push around Asians because they won't put up a fight. And the thread struck a remarkable chord , I remember, amongst the guys. Reply after reply from guys sharing their pent up anger/resentment.

So I guess my post was the direct result from that frame of thought. Personally, I've been fortunate enough to not have endured some of the other things that Asian guys have had to deal with -- guys like my father, who'd been held up at gunpoint while working at our dry cleaners. My father was very much a punk when he was younger and would get into fights all the time, but this time they had guns, and this time he had his son (my older brother) standing next to him. kasia shared a story earlier about how she was taking a walk with her grandfather when she was a kid, and a couple of punks started talking smack to her, and she half-expected her grandfather to use the stern, authoritative tone of voice she'd been so familiar with. Instead, he just ushered her away and ignored them, and she basically thought he hadn't stepped up -- that is emasculation.

[Hito]

Is the feeling mostly among Chinese Japanese and Korean descended Asian americans?
Is it a similar feeling among Philippino & Samoan descended people?
I know some Samoan & Philippino brothers (and sisters) who are physically quite intimidating.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Hito@Sep 11 2002, 11:40 AM
Is the feeling mostly among Chinese Japanese and Korean descended Asian americans?
Is it a similar feeling among Philippino & Samoan descended people?
I know some Samoan & Philippino brothers (and sisters) who are physically quite intimidating.
That's a fair question.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 11 2002, 01:15 AM
kasia shared a story earlier about how she was taking a walk with her grandfather when she was a kid, and a couple of punks started talking smack to her, and she half-expected her grandfather to use the stern, authoritative tone of voice she'd been so familiar with. Instead, he just ushered her away and ignored them, and she basically thought he hadn't stepped up -- that is emasculation.
question, how is this not stepping up. There's these group of punk kids and kasia is with her grandfather. I would suspect her grandfather's first instinct would be in the safety of the grandchild? I don't think thats emasculation, that's smart.

But, I hear ya, I face it everyday at the gym. I'm sick of guys asking me if I'm on steroids because they never seen a big chink. I'm sick of people at the gym looking at me when I'm hoisting plates working out and muttering I can do that shit.

I'm sick of that scrawny <insert non-asian race here> kid, thinking he can work in with me and do the same amount of weight, thinking if a chink can do it, it should be cake for me. I'm thinking yah bud jump right in at 275 in the middle of my bench workout without warming up, just because you just saw a chink squeeze out 15, you figure it must be a walk in the park for you. However, when you get stuck under the weight or god forbid you tear your pec and they ask if there is a doctor in the gym; I'll laugh at you before I help ya.

I know respect is important (how you carry yourself, education etc etc). But we are guys also and there's something to be said when society thinks of you as less of a man than other races. I look at it as a driving force to excel AB, to be smarter, stronger, faster, richer, more educated than those fuckers that put us down.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 11 2002, 03:06 PM-->

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 12:02 PM
But, I hear ya, I face it everyday at the gym. I'm sick of guys asking me if I'm on steroids because they never seen a big chink. I'm sick of people at the gym looking at me when I'm hoisting plates working out and muttering I can do that shit.

I'm sick of that scrawny <insert non-asian race here>, thinking he can work in with me and do the same amount of weight, thinking if a chink can do it, it should be cake for me. I'm thinking yah bud jump right in at 275 in the middle of my bench workout without warming up, just because you just saw a chink squeeze out 15, you figure it must be a walk in the park for you. However, when you get stuck under the weight or god forbid you tear your pec and they ask if there is a doctor in the gym; I'll laugh at you before I help ya.


Woo - nice big muscular Asian men, nice thought there... I think it's bun boy's turn to put *me* to sleep.

As long as it's not the kind that grow sideways through weightlifting. That just looks weird.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Hito@Sep 11 2002, 11:40 AM
I know some Samoan & Philippino brothers (and sisters) who are physically quite intimidating.
I tend to think it has less to do with physique, more with this persistent notion that regardless of how big that Asian fella is over there, he's just a big wuss because...aren't they all?

A guy half my size was stupid enough to talk shit to OHtotoro, and he's gigantic.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 11 2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Hito@Sep 11 2002, 11:40 AM
I know some Samoan & Philippino brothers (and sisters) who are physically quite intimidating.
I tend to think it has less to do with physique, more with this persistent notion that regardless of how big that Asian fella is over there, he's just a big wuss because...aren't they all?

A guy half my size was stupid enough to talk shit to OHtotoro, and he's gigantic.
AB just hit it right on the nail.

It's not about who can kick who's ass. But I guarantee you that same cat, would not have talked junk to OHtotoro if he was black or wasn't running a few heads deep. It's more about respecting each other's boundaries so we don't end up kicking each other's ass.

The weird part is I don't have problems with the other minorites, we talk, shoot the shit and exchange workout tips. It's mostly the white guys that try to front and act all hard that can't accept it.

and <bonk> HH



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 11 2002, 04:04 PM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 01:00 PM
AB just hit it right on the nail.
Just call me hamma!

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 01:00 PM
and <bonk> HH
Don't you mean "boink"...?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 01:00 PM
The weird part is I don't have problems with the other minorites, we talk, shoot the shit and exchange workout tips. It's mostly the white guys that try to front and act all hard that can't accept it.


So, it is fair to say we're talking about putting fear into the white man? Right? Help me out, I don't understand a lot of this guy shit.

[deez nuts]

I don't think we can use just my example in the gym. It's an isolated thing. Who knows maybe the chinese guy at another gym 5 blocks away goes through the same thing as I do, but with black guys.

Maybe we are talking about more of society's perception that asian males are passive and emasculated aka moist. And not targetting or singling out a specific race that does it to us or we want to get our message across to?

I've seen this done to the extreme also, because of this asian male stereotype. Some of my Chinese friends would not let things go, they would throw down to everything. I remember we are at a club once when I was a freshman in college, some dude was looking at my friend's girlfriend. No biggie to me, if it happened to me, I'd be flattered. But you guessed it, money was white. He took offense so he started up with him.

We had 6 heads, 7 if you count his girl. The other guy rolled like 12 deep. Fight broke out, his girlfriend was caught in the middle. I had to pull his gf aside, so she won't be in the middle of it.

And when the dust cleared, I asked my friend what the fuck were you thinking? He said he got fed up with people trampling all over him, because he's an asian guy. Granted yes, club + gf + some cat checking out your girl = testosterone overload and situation will probably get thick. But, I suspect it's been building up for quite awhile in him.

I'm sorry sometimes you have to pick your fights, in that instance my first reaction would be to protect my girlfriend and not start anything to begin with. If that gets mistaken for moist, so be it.

So I can see how in the effort to prove that we as asian males can hold our own can straight up blow up right in our faces at times.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 11 2002, 05:53 PM-->

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 11 2002, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 10 2002, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by mrazntre@Sep 11 2002, 05:18 AM
no respect given. no fear placed.


if we take a cultural look into Asian society as a whole, it is easily pointed out that .... fear leads to respect. Not too much fear, yet just enough to keep all those around you honest.



Sun Tzu.
I'd rather be respected for my achievements and merits than because im "scary."
And certainly this is the mature/civilized thing to do, and to not let the testosterone get to our heads.

But guys can only take so much, especially in a society that glorifies a stud who can stand up for himself.

I should probably give some background on my original post: it was from over a year ago in another asian forum, and a guy started a thread about how sick and tired he was of feeling powerless, and the frustration that comes with having to deal with people always having the initial impression that it's okay to push around Asians because they won't put up a fight. And the thread struck a remarkable chord , I remember, amongst the guys. Reply after reply from guys sharing their pent up anger/resentment.

So I guess my post was the direct result from that frame of thought. Personally, I've been fortunate enough to not have endured some of the other things that Asian guys have had to deal with -- guys like my father, who'd been held up at gunpoint while working at our dry cleaners. My father was very much a punk when he was younger and would get into fights all the time, but this time they had guns, and this time he had his son (my older brother) standing next to him. kasia shared a story earlier about how she was taking a walk with her grandfather when she was a kid, and a couple of punks started talking smack to her, and she half-expected her grandfather to use the stern, authoritative tone of voice she'd been so familiar with. Instead, he just ushered her away and ignored them, and she basically thought he hadn't stepped up -- that is emasculation.
Well, maybe I just don't understand this because I'm not a guy... but wouldn't it be a good way of dealing with this to just... prove people wrong? Like if somebody starts pushing you around, then take control of the situation and if you want to kick some ass, go ahead and kick some ass? Deal with things situation by situation, not live your life just trying to evoke fear out of everybody you meet?

I had a friend who everybody was afraid of... apparently he was this big "tough guy." He said he got tired of people being too scared of him to be honest with him, so he started acting a little less intimidated. Sometimes he misses it, but other times he realizes that the type of respect he recieves now is much more fulfilling. He knows now that people actually respect him for who he is and not just because they want to suck up to him so he doesn't pound the living shit out of them.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 02:43 PM
So I can see how in the effort to prove that we as asian males can hold our own can straight up blow up right in our faces at times.
Playing devil's advocate here.

So, by your definition, my husband isn't a manly Chinese guy because he would walk away from a fight? Keep in mind that this is a guy that gets occasionally stared down by dumbass hillbillies because he has a 'white' woman.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 11 2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 11 2002, 02:43 PM
So I can see how in the effort to prove that we as asian males can hold our own can straight up blow up right in our faces at times.
Playing devil's advocate here.

So, by your definition, my husband isn't a manly Chinese guy because he would walk away from a fight? Keep in mind that this is a guy that gets occasionally stared down by dumbass hillbillies because he has a 'white' woman.
No HH, he's more of a man. I wouldn't throw down with only me and my wifey there with a buncha hillbillies. But then again, I have this impression that you do pack heat. You do have to admit it is not wise to start a fight with a bunch of hillbillies with only your husband and yourself, just because they (the hillbillies) looked at your husband the wrong way because he's with a "white" woman.

That final sentence, I was saying you gotta know when to pick your fights. And not to make it a personal crusade to prove to everyone that remotely looks at you the wrong way and try to reverse the perceived stereotype of the asian male all by yourself.

So in other words from what you're saying I'm not a man for not stepping up from all those incidences at the gym? Or in your case, have you considered that maybe the hillbillies aren't looking at him, but looking at how fine of a woman he is with? Hell if I saw you I'd look at you too and give Mr. HH props for good taste <trying to turn the table around>.

[kimpossible]

Gawddam, it's about time I finally fought with you a little, bun boy. We agree on far too much. :D

Okay. I know the difference between being checked out and Billy Joe Bob and his kin sneering at my man as a chink with a nice car and white ho (or crossbreed if they can see it). The gym scenario sounds like a bunch of chest-beating Gorillas in the Mist crap. No, I don't think it's manly to outlift some other guy. Plus, if it's a dumb meathead white dude, why sweat him? Why acknowledge his existence? *sigh* I don't understand.

Actually, I don't think I can understand. I am acknowledging my femininity and admit I don't get it but I at least understand that it was your way of saying enough is enough. That I can respect.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 11 2002, 08:33 PM
Gawddam, it's about time I finally fought with you a little, bun boy. We agree on far too much. &nbsp;:D

Okay. I know the difference between being checked out and Billy Joe Bob and his kin sneering at my man as a chink with a nice car and white ho (or crossbreed if they can see it). The gym scenario sounds like a bunch of chest-beating Gorillas in the Mist crap. No, I don't think it's manly to outlift some other guy. Plus, if it's a dumb meathead white dude, why sweat him? Why acknowledge his existence? *sigh* I don't understand.

Actually, I don't think I can understand. I am acknowledging my femininity and admit I don't get it but I at least understand that it was your way of saying enough is enough. That I can respect.
You're right the gym thing is a guy thing. I don't go in there trying to outlift every cat in there or try and floss to the ladies and show off, never was my intention, never will be. I do it for myself and personal reasons(relieve stress, ease my libido hehe). I hit the weights, get my pump on and leave (45 -1hr tops, no flirting with the girls no bullshitting with the guys). But, it's hard not to notice the looks and the little stupid comments here and there. And yes it affects me, how, because it's always an issue with me going in there. I'm either treated as 1)a novelty 2)a chink that injects himself in the ass with steroids. If I had a nickel for everytime I had someone come up and ask me you're one big asian/oriental are you on the sauce, my med school loans would be paid off by now. And it grinds away at me.

Why asians can't be strong without drugs, or can't be big? Look at AB, he was a jock and he played football, J-spence and I used to swap workout tips and supplement info, and Ohtotoro is a big guy according to AB. We're all pygmy in stature or something? We can't have physical presence?

You might say, switch gyms? Why? It's 2 blocks from where I live, I can go straight from work to the gym and then head back to my apartment which is right across the street from the hospital. I like the gym, it's got the machines and the wide variety of free wights and dumbells I like. Overall a few of the guys I know there and lift with are cool.

Will I get belligerent and fight over this stupid shit? Hellz no. Nowadays, I just throw on my headphones and grind away. <sarcasm on> And live up to the passive asian male stereotype <sarcasm off>



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 11 2002, 09:01 PM-->

[kasia]

this is probably the only issue that i can see clearly from a male's point of view :lol:

when i very young, my grandfather used to take me on walks in san francisco. one day, several black guys approached us and started taunting us and calling us chinks. i stood there and stared back at them (i was no more than 5-6), expecting my grandfather, who was standing behind me, to either talk back to them or kick their asses. you see, my grandfather wasn't the type of man to take shit. instead, he grabbed my hand and quietly led me away. we walked home in silence.

that image of that incident remained with me for the next 20 years, and an story in koream last year reminded me of the it: a 7 year old korean boy was sitting with his father in their liquor store in inglewood. several black guys walked in and took chips. the father requested that they pay, and this angered them. they started knocking down all the shelves, etc. the boy looked at his father--the strong man who seemed to hold all the power in their home--expecting him to do something...and he saw the same man, rather than fighting back against these guys, pick him up to retreat to the storage room in defeat.

i understand it's an issue of safety. i also understand that we as asians generally tend to have more to lose than blacks, mexicans, and white trash. but i'm so sick of watching men i care about lose their pride over incidents caused by these losers.

several years ago, a huge white guy was walking around the streets of san francisco chinatown, screaming racial slurs at the chinese people there. nobody said anything to him--he appeared drunk. my father watched this from a coffeeshop and, when the man screamed at an elderly chinese lady, he couldn't take it anymore. he walked outside and told the white guy to shut up. the white guy responded with, "chink!" my father immediately poured hot coffee into his face and pushed him onto the ground. "i don't care what your personal opinion of chinese people may be," he said, "but don't think you can walk around chinatown yelling the word 'chink'." all the people in the street and inside the shops and restaurants cheered. it was quite a scene. :)

other thoughts/facts:
asians men are often targeted as victims of crimes because of the belief that they are passive.

i often think, if the roles were reversed during the l.a. riots and it was the korean men rioting and the black men holding the guns--would there really be so few casualties? i strongly think it's time we let ourselves fight back.



<!--EDIT|kasia|Sep 12 2002, 03:46 AM-->

[kimpossible]

Agreed for the most part. But I'm not getting the equivalent of weightlifting in the gym or dancing in a club to outright racist and threatening behaviour like you are describing, kasia. I'm not saying that I won't get the connection, just that I'm not getting it yet.

You guys aren't the only ones to grow up in tough neighborhoods or be bullied due to race, it's not like I myself haven't faced it. By both blacks and whites for being an *insert your Asian slur here* or *insert your white slur here*.

I completely understand the idea of not taking shit anymore. It wasn't pleasant to be looking up from the ground at some kid kicking me in the stomach yelling "Gook, go back home!'" to me.

But if it came down to my husband fighting or backing off from a fight that I'm not sure he can walk away from, I'm not going to think anything less of him for walking away. He can protect the home, he can protect me to a certain extent but he can't endanger his life over some asshole who has no effect over our lives. Bullies never bully when they don't think it's in their advantage and they usually travel in numbers.

To some extent, let me say I agree and concede to the point. There comes a time where enough is enough, but I'm not sure it makes someone less of a man to walk away from a fight on the street or a club.

Whoah, and I was only playing devil's advocate before. Now I'm all serious and stuff.

edit: bedtime for me guys. 'Night. Plz say something if you think I'm missing something important. I do understand with what you're saying for the most part. But only most... :)



<!--EDIT|Hello_Hapa|Sep 11 2002, 08:30 PM-->

[kasia]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 12 2002, 04:13 AM
Agreed for the most part. But I'm not getting the equivalent of weightlifting in the gym or dancing in a club to outright racist and threatening behaviour like you are describing, kasia. I'm not saying that I won't get the connection, just that I'm not getting it yet.


yeh. i don't think i was really trying to make the connection--just writing my own feelings on the general topic...

but if i were to try...i don't really quite see the connection either. aside from the fact that i'm sick of having "them" think that "they" won.

[SunWuKong]

for me, it's like this. if a loved one was with me, say a girlfriend or a kid relative or something, and i was faced with that kind of blatant racist acts, then i would walk away. my first concern would be the safety of whoever i'm with. who knows if they'd do anything to who i'm with if i try to start a fight. but if i was with other guys or even by myself...

getting my ass kicked because they had more people or the guy was bigger - that i can live with.

backing down when i didn't, and shouldn't, have to - that i can't live with.

[deez nuts]

well yeah, if someone got in my face and started calling me a chink. His ass is grass. It's the subtle shit that's in the gray area. I mean come on, one on one on equal footing there isn't any of us guys here who wouldn't step up when faced with a person spewing racist remarks, that's a whole new ballgame. There are degrees of racism and racial stereotyping. The outright blatant in your face is easy to deal with, the subtle ones aren't as clear.

If I was kasia's dad, I do the same thing and I have. If I was kasia's grandfather, I do the same thing too.

Come on if I were to ask what your stereotype of the asian male is, what would it be? And don't front.

Sorry it's thing guys have it's called male pride and testosterone, and it isn't really comforting for the male ego (yes i'll admit to having one) when the general perception of you is of one being moist (easily pushed around, passive meek etc etc)



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 12 2002, 09:16 AM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Sep 11 2002, 08:13 PM
Agreed for the most part. But I'm not getting the equivalent of weightlifting in the gym or dancing in a club to outright racist and threatening behaviour like you are describing, kasia. I'm not saying that I won't get the connection, just that I'm not getting it yet.

You guys aren't the only ones to grow up in tough neighborhoods or be bullied due to race, it's not like I myself haven't faced it. By both blacks and whites for being an *insert your Asian slur here* or *insert your white slur here*.

I completely understand the idea of not taking shit anymore. It wasn't pleasant to be looking up from the ground at some kid kicking me in the stomach yelling "Gook, go back home!'" to me.

But if it came down to my husband fighting or backing off from a fight that I'm not sure he can walk away from, I'm not going to think anything less of him for walking away. He can protect the home, he can protect me to a certain extent but he can't endanger his life over some asshole who has no effect over our lives. Bullies never bully when they don't think it's in their advantage and they usually travel in numbers.

To some extent, let me say I agree and concede to the point. There comes a time where enough is enough, but I'm not sure it makes someone less of a man to walk away from a fight on the street or a club.

Whoah, and I was only playing devil's advocate before. Now I'm all serious and stuff.

edit: bedtime for me guys. 'Night. Plz say something if you think I'm missing something important. I do understand with what you're saying for the most part. But only most... :)
I don't like to make leaps in associating one incident with another and thus concluding conspiracy...but taking into account it being a generally shared perception among so many Asian males, throwing in the mix of hate crimes, and stirring in mainstream media messages that *never* speak to the contrary, I'd say it's an issue.

And yes, I know that like most other Asian males, I probably agonize over it every single day, here on out: I'll take it and try and be "better"...

Here's to hoping against a major asian male backlash in the future...!

[kasia]

here's another related stereotype--the only time asians have actually beat the u.s. was during the bombing of pearl harbor. but we never conceded that it was because japan was smarter or more powerful or anything like that. only that it was a *sneak* attack.

what i'm trying to say is--when asian do fight back and are successful, their actions are often classified as sneaky.

argh! this topic gets me angry.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 12 2002, 11:03 PM
here's another related stereotype--the only time asians have actually beat the u.s. was during the bombing of pearl harbor. but we never conceded that it was because japan was smarter or more powerful or anything like that. only that it was a *sneak* attack.

what i'm trying to say is--when asian do fight back and are successful, their actions are often classified as sneaky.

argh! this topic gets me angry.
case in point: LA Riots. Korean men were portrayed as greedy, crazy, gun-toting nuts. Not a word about the scores of Korean shop owners murdered for a few bucks, but certainly scorn when they have the nerve to defend themselves.

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 13 2002, 02:03 AM
here's another related stereotype--the only time asians have actually beat the u.s. was during the bombing of pearl harbor. but we never conceded that it was because japan was smarter or more powerful or anything like that. only that it was a *sneak* attack.

what i'm trying to say is--when asian do fight back and are successful, their actions are often classified as sneaky.

argh! this topic gets me angry.

I actually saw the damn movie. The scene in the "movie" when the japanese were planning the attack was the best part of the whole movie. Those guys understood the physics of shallow water, and it showed how stupid the americans were for bunching up their ships together tightly in shallow water as a defensive measure.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 13 2002, 07:03 AM
here's another related stereotype--the only time asians have actually beat the u.s. was during the bombing of pearl harbor. but we never conceded that it was because japan was smarter or more powerful or anything like that. only that it was a *sneak* attack.

what i'm trying to say is--when asian do fight back and are successful, their actions are often classified as sneaky.

argh! this topic gets me angry.
ARE the Japanese smarter and more powerful than the U.S.? Not to be a hater or anything, but... isn't it pretty accurate to describe the attack on Pearl Harbor as a sneak attack? I mean, the US should have been prepared, they just weren't. And IF the US was prepared, we really have no idea what would have happened. So there's no way to really know who was smarter or more powerful than who.

Keep in mind, though, that it wasn't about ethnicity. It was more about two sides in a war. During wartime, the nation hypes things up to get the general population to have faith in the U.S. As fucked up as it gets, this was like... World War II. Shit was different back then.

Pearl Harbor, though, is a lot different than what goes on in the street between you and the guy giving you dirty looks.

Since when has it become more important to get your ass kicked than to be the bigger man? I mean, there's no need to get stepped on or walked all over, and if it's your personality to not back down when somebody talks shit... then what are we complaining about, because if that's really what you do, there's probably not a lot of people who continue thinking you're weak or passive after they've confronted you about it. Nothing to complain about then, because you're always the one who gets the upper hand and the last laugh.

If that's not your personality to jump up and start fighting when somebody gets in your face... then just pride yourself on being the bigger man. And that has NOTHING to do with being a wimp or being passive. That has to do with having your priorities straight.

[Hito]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 13 2002, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 12 2002, 11:03 PM
here's another related stereotype--the only time asians have actually beat the u.s. was during the bombing of pearl harbor. &nbsp;but we never conceded that it was because japan was smarter or more powerful or anything like that. &nbsp;only that it was a *sneak* attack.

what i'm trying to say is--when asian do fight back and are successful, their actions are often classified as sneaky.

argh! &nbsp;this topic gets me angry.
case in point: LA Riots. Korean men were portrayed as greedy, crazy, gun-toting nuts. Not a word about the scores of Korean shop owners murdered for a few bucks, but certainly scorn when they have the nerve to defend themselves.
Hey AB
i came across a great site about that just the other day

Coreanism.org (http://www.coreanism.org/)
Check it out.
Powerful look at that whole time.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 13 2002, 02:07 AM

case in point: LA Riots. Korean men were portrayed as greedy, crazy, gun-toting nuts. Not a word about the scores of Korean shop owners murdered for a few bucks, but certainly scorn when they have the nerve to defend themselves.
word AB.

From the point I watched the LA riots happen to days and weeks later. I was very pissed off at the fact the the Koreans were portrayed as money hungry and blood thirsty maniacs for defending their shops with force. I did not hear the media mention one time when I watched the news about the Koreans that were killed by the looting mobs.

I was thinking: What the fuck? An asian man can't even defend his own property? What the hell is he supposed to do? Roll out the red carpet, invite the angry mobs in his store and give them the royal treatment?



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 13 2002, 09:29 PM-->

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 13 2002, 06:18 PM
From the point I watched the LA riots happen to days and weeks later. I was very pissed off at the fact the the Koreans were portrayed as money hungry and blood thirsty maniacs for defending their shops with force. I did not hear the media mention one time when I watched the news about the Koreans that were killed by the looting mobs.

I was thinking: What the fuck? An asian man can't even defend his own property? What the hell is he supposed to do? Roll out the red carpet, invite the angry mobs in his store and give them the royal treatment?
Actually, just to clarify...more Koreans have died during "non-riot" times. The one Korean who did die was a kid, 19 years old. He went out to ktown because the Korean radio stations were asking Korean men to come help out.

Anyway...it's the story of everything about this country: we get in line like we're told, then they kick us out of line 'cuz they're suspicious. They laugh at us because Long Duk Dong, but hate us when we step up.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Sep 23 2002, 01:20 AM
Hey, guys...

Just browsing this forum....and I have to say it again: Does this really happen?

I think Kasia was talking about some Black "brothas" acting a bit big-headed racially....(I apologize for that)...

They should know better....(however, "stupid" affects a lot of people)...

Being a sheltered person, (long story on that) I only see one (or two) sides...(ie, Black and White)...

...Asians are somewhat usually in the middle....(Hispanics tend to be either "Black" or "White"...with some calling themselves "Brown"...and viewing themselves as a separate ethnicity)....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what to say...

:(
you don't need to say anything. you don't contribute to the hate, do you?



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 23 2002, 02:00 AM-->

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Sep 22 2002, 10:20 PM
Just browsing this forum....and I have to say it again: Does this really happen?

I think Kasia was talking about some Black "brothas" acting a bit big-headed racially....(I apologize for that)...

Hell yes it happens. I went to Southie schools as in Roxbury, Dorchester and Mattapan. I can personally guarantee you that they had no love for Asians there.

I don't think the apology is necessary. You didn't do it and the sentiment still exists.

[kasia]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Sep 23 2002, 06:20 AM
I think Kasia was talking about some Black "brothas" acting a bit big-headed racially....(I apologize for that)...

i grew up around Black people, so while i encountered some mean bullies, a lot of my good friends growing up were also Black. i never attribute one bad incident with a person to the person's entire race.

but it's funny that we take it upon ourselves to apologize. i would do the same if a Chinese person were being racist. rather than saying, "well, that's her, not me...", i would feel a bit of shame on my part. why is that? are we somehow representatives of our race/ethnicity?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 23 2002, 10:40 AM
are we somehow representatives of our race/ethnicity?
yes and why are you posting on YW at 6:45 in the morning?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 23 2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Sep 23 2002, 06:20 AM
I think Kasia was talking about some Black "brothas" acting a bit big-headed racially....(I apologize for that)...

i grew up around Black people, so while i encountered some mean bullies, a lot of my good friends growing up were also Black. i never attribute one bad incident with a person to the person's entire race.

but it's funny that we take it upon ourselves to apologize. i would do the same if a Chinese person were being racist. rather than saying, "well, that's her, not me...", i would feel a bit of shame on my part. why is that? are we somehow representatives of our race/ethnicity?
Why you apologizing KB?

Well, I for one don't apologize for another person's, epecially another chinaman's, ignorance and stupidity, only my own.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 23 2002, 11:25 AM-->

[Shuriken]

My $0.02: What's needed is understanding, not fear. Fear comes from a lack of understanding. Fear does not entail respect, but resentment. And resentment against Asians will only lead to more hate crimes.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by Shuriken@Oct 21 2002, 05:12 PM
My $0.02: What's needed is understanding, not fear. Fear comes from a lack of understanding. Fear does not entail respect, but resentment. And resentment against Asians will only lead to more hate crimes.
we've understood too long that they don't care to understand...

so some of us resort to abrasive defenses.