Koizumi visits Yasukuni Shrine on New Years Day

[Made in China]

Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's visit to Tokyo's Yasukuni Shrine on New Year's Day has provoked strong indignation from China.

On New Year's Day, Koizumi visited the Yasukuni Shrine in his capacity as Japan's prime minister, his fourth in three years to a place that honors Class-A war criminals, whose hands were stained with the blood of the people of China and other Asian countries.


Most of the Chinese media Friday carried reports on Koizumi's shrine visit and Chinese Vice-Foreign Minister Wang Yi's solemn representations to the Japanese government, saying that it was a perfidious act by Koizumi in defiance of opposition in Japan and from other Asian countries, and has undermined the political basis for Sino-Japanese ties. Many internet surfers also lodged strong criticisms and condemnations. In a forum run by Xinhuanet, over 300 comments were posted within a day. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Continue Article http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2004-01/02/content_295421.htm


Japanese PM's shrine visit a perfidious act
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/02/content_1258198.htm

Japanese PM visits war criminal shrine Includes Images!!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/01/content_1258199.htm

China lodges solemn representations over Koizumi's shrine visit
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/01/content_1257020.htm

South Korea regrets Japanese PM's visit to Yasukuni Shrine
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/01/content_1257021.htm

Japanese pacifists protest against Koizumi's shrine visit Includes Images!!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/02/content_1258518.htm

FULL STORY
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-01/02/content_1258198.htm

[Made in China]

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's visit to the controversial Yasukuni shrine, which honours 14 of the country's notorious war criminals, among the nation's 2.47 million war dead.

Class-A World War II criminals, 14 of whom who played a role in Japan's brutal war of aggression against China from 1937 to 1945, are honoured at the shrine.

Many Asian Nations are extremely pissed at Japan now.

Tadayoshi Ichida, head of the secretariat of the Japanese Communist Party, said: "Going to worship at Yasukuni Shrine, which is a symbol of a war of aggression and the promotion of militarism, is definitely unacceptable."

[ism]

Someone familiar with things over there know if it would be even possible for Koizumi to visit the shrine to honor the other dead, but somehow separate the war criminals from them?

[fresh22]

This is kind off into a tangent, how come Jews get most attention to the people who endured the most suffering during WWII?

Cmon, Stalin's purges? 20-30 milllion Russians died, also the atrocities like the above mentioned by Japan. I've never understood why our history books focus so much on the Holocaust and very little of the suffering of hundreds of millions of others. Zionist bias? I don't know.

[Blue dice]

This is kind off into a tangent, how come Jews get most attention to the people who endured the most suffering during WWII?

Cmon, Stalin's purges? 20-30 milllion Russians died, also the atrocities like the above mentioned by Japan. I've never understood why our history books focus so much on the Holocaust and very little of the suffering of hundreds of millions of others. Zionist bias? I don't know.
I'm not all about zionist conspiracies or any of that hogwash but there are a large number of Jewish authors, directors, and other prominent people in the entertainment/media industry. It's easier to make a film about your people's suffering if you are in the position to do so financially and market it to a wide audience. Plus politically there's some measure of guilt felt by White America towards Jews in WW2 because the U.S. government ignored early warnings about Jewish persecution. China is seen as the new red "menace" after the fall of the Soviet Union so it's harder for Americans to feel sympathy for the many Chinese who were brutalized at Nanking. It's all political in the end, Jews have a bigger victim card to play but lots of groups suffered during WW2. Gypsies probably had it worse than Jews in many cases but you don't see movies being made about them.

[SunWuKong]

this is nothing new. in fact it's kind of boring news. it happens every year and the same things happen. first China (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3360591.stm) says it's angry. then South Korea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3362087.stm) follows suit.

[A.R.A.M.]

For my inaugural post, I think I will delurk and chime in on the topic of those who suffered in WWII. In the U.S., it does seem like the persecution of many groups is eclipsed by the suffering of the Jews. I had never known that the gypsies were a target, but I had heard that homosexuals were. Yet movies and books in the U.S. have begun to present wartime atrocities in Asia. For example, the Rape of Nanjing has recently gotten some coverage by Iris Chang. (I haven't read the book, but what I heard about it might not be too pleasing to Japanese ears, for she seems to argue that there is something inherently brutal about the Japanese that caused them to do what they did. I have heard this argument in regards to the Germans.) Another reference to Japan's atrocities in American popular culture would be, if I recall correctly, is in the movie "The Last Emperor," which references wartime experiments conducted by the Japanese on Chinese in North China. Also, there was a subplot in the X-files that dealt with the wartime experiments of a (fictious?) WWII Japanese war criminal. I don't know if that is good or bad; the show was using it for entertainment value after all, but it was one of the only references such experiments that I have come across in American popular culture.

As far as I know, the lack of information on other victimized groups is is not a phenomenon unique to the U.S. When I was in Taiwan, I saw the plight of Jews in WWII being ignored, trivialized, or treated with extreme insensitivity on occassion. The most galling example was a cafe that was located near Shita not too many years ago called "Hell." "Hell" was a holocaust themed restaurant where the decorations on the walls were pictures of piles of dead bodies that had been gassed in concentration camps. And while my memory is hazy, I think I went to a bar once that had the Nazi flag on the wall. I am not sure if this was a trend that was unique to Taiwan; I read somewhere that South Korea had similarly themed restaurants. I don't think that the owners and patrons of these places were anti-semitic, but rather just thought that these decorations were cool. These symbols/pictures did not carry the same emotional impact that they do in the U.S. and Europe.

[Emperor_Mike]

This is kind off into a tangent, how come Jews get most attention to the people who endured the most suffering during WWII?

Cmon, Stalin's purges? 20-30 milllion Russians died, also the atrocities like the above mentioned by Japan. I've never understood why our history books focus so much on the Holocaust and very little of the suffering of hundreds of millions of others. Zionist bias? I don't know.

I'd imagine it has more to do with the fashion in which the Jews were killed rather than by numbers alone. Stalin's purges, his disastrous economic plans, and Japan's war atrocities were more or less either spontaneous acts of evil and brutility or the direct and unfortunate result of faulty policies. The Endlösung as discussed at the Wansee Conference was essentially a meticulously organised design for wholesale murder of men, women, and children. Camps were built, extermination facilities raised, chemicals like Prussic Acid (aka "Zyklon B") were brought in from Reich industrial bodies like the "Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbenindustrie Aktiengesellschaft" (better known as IG Farben) and special SS formations raised to run the facilities, etc. There were even quotas to be met. In other words, the Endlösung was as well organised as a modern day slaughterhouse where instead of cattle, people were herded into buildings from which they would never leave.

Of course, this doesn't diminish the horrors Japan visited on China and other Asian countries. It's deplorable and disheartening to learn that the Japanese government still refuses to fully acknowledge what the Imperial Army did in World War II. But Koizumi's visit to the shrine is his concern, you know. It's not wrong to honour those killed in war since every culture around the world partakes in similiar rituals. Granted, there are those among the dead who should be exhumed and put on trial for crimes against humanity, but all in all, we don't know enough about Koizumi's motives to question the reason behind his visits. Just because he turns up every year doesn't mean he's there for the benefit of the war criminals. When you walk into a bank people don't automatically assume you're there to rob it, do they? I think China is being a bit unreasonable here.

The Nanking Massacre was a holocaust in its own right. But it had all the trappings of a "spur of the moment" massacre. The Jewish Holocaust by comparison was a well-thought out, incredibly well-organised affair where systems of quotas, tests for efficiency, and talks about maximising the "kill potential" were laid out in full even before the killings surged. Japanese soldiers ran amok in Nanking and South East Asia killing indescriminately while the Germans not only indulged in "traditional" war brutality, but also went the extra mile to set up extermination and slave plants to process Jews, Gypsies, and POWs.

Those are the finer points of the subject. Taken as a whole, however, killing is killing. The Japanese Imperial Army's activities during the Second World War are comparable to the actions of the SS and isolated Wehrmacht units in that large numbers of civilians were ruthlessly murdered. If we discard everything I've said so far on efficiency and planning, there is absolutely nothing to make the Jewish Holocaust more worthy of consideration and reflection than the Chinese one.

[SunWuKong]

what i've thought is weird as far as the Nanjing Massacre is concerned is that Chinese people have always known about this, but when Americans talk about it, they always make a reference to Iris Chang's book, which was only written recently.

[Emperor_Mike]

what i've thought is weird as far as the Nanjing Massacre is concerned is that Chinese people have always known about this, but when Americans talk about it, they always make a reference to Iris Chang's book, which was only written recently.

It's not surprising. The Nanking Massacre isn't as well known as the Jewish Holocaust. That it's getting some exposure from Iris Chang's book can only be a good thing. We can hope that humanity will learn something from these unfortunate events, but sadly, I don't think we'll ever get to that stage.

[Blue dice]

what i've thought is weird as far as the Nanjing Massacre is concerned is that Chinese people have always known about this, but when Americans talk about it, they always make a reference to Iris Chang's book, which was only written recently.
Irish Chang's book was the most definitive work on the subject that's in English. There are countless Chinese language resources that document the atrocities in Nanking though. The fact is if it's not written and packaged in English don't expect most Americans to know about it.

[SunWuKong]

Irish Chang's book was the most definitive work on the subject that's in English. There are countless Chinese language resources that document the atrocities in Nanking though. The fact is if it's not written and packaged in English don't expect most Americans to know about it.

i would like to say that there have been other English literature on the subject, but i don't know that for certain. and even if there were, they were probably academic in nature and not for the casual reader like Iris Chang's book was.

[Blue dice]

i would like to say that there have been other English literature on the subject, but i don't know that for certain. and even if there were, they were probably academic in nature and not for the casual reader like Iris Chang's book was.
There have been purely academic works from a historical perspective but none that had reached the mainstream before Chang. In that sense Chang's work is still the most definitive..

I don't recall any other english work on Nanking that had gone into the personal details of the lives of the victims either. Chang interviewed victims of Nanking and actually dug up tons of old archive pictures, records, etc..

[Made in China]

I can't believe the current Japanese Government still not apologize.

The Old Old Government Officials died years ago, but the Newest Government still would not apologize to victims.

Theres a movie called "In the Name of the Emperor".

Have you heard? Japan wants to change its constituion so when it thinks its in danger, It can attack FIRST. The current constitutoin said It can't attack at all, except when its attack it can use its "Defence Forces".

Japanese Militarism is rising again, Just like the article said.

[Martino]

Irish Chang's book was the most definitive work on the subject that's in English. There are countless Chinese language resources that document the atrocities in Nanking though.

I think its more likely that Americans prefer to digest their 'history' through Hollywood, which unfortunatly seems to deliberatly rewrite history for no clear purpose: think U-571, Pearl Harbour (EDIT: sorry, Harbor), Seven Years in Tibet etc.

The fact is if it's not written and packaged in English don't expect most Americans to know about it.

Except of course, it is written and packaged in English. Even Amazon sell a pile of books on the subject. It just isn't taught. And people aren't going out of their way to learn. Why, I don't know.

I do know that when I was at secondary school here (12-16 year olds), we did hear about Nanking, and Dachau, and operation Barbarossa, and Dresden, and the Long March, and all those awkward bits of history which don't make good movies ...

[Blue dice]

I think its more likely that Americans prefer to digest their 'history' through Hollywood, which unfortunatly seems to deliberatly rewrite history for no clear purpose: think U-571, Pearl Harbour (EDIT: sorry, Harbor), Seven Years in Tibet etc.

U-571 was a complete embarassment considering it should have been about Brits and the enigma code. I view Pearl Harbor as somewhat revisionist but largely irrelevant because the movie sucked so bad anyways.

Except of course, it is written and packaged in English. Even Amazon sell a pile of books on the subject. It just isn't taught. And people aren't going out of their way to learn. Why, I don't know.

I have to chalk this up as a general failure of the U.S. educational system. You can't expect any kind of in depth overview of history in U.S. public schools. Matter of fact I learned more about civil war "heros" (which I quickly forgot after high school) than I did about relevant events from the past two decades. The way world history/U.S. history is taught here is pretty myopic and at times steeped in ethnocentrism.

I do know that when I was at secondary school here (12-16 year olds), we did hear about Nanking, and Dachau, and operation Barbarossa, and Dresden, and the Long March, and all those awkward bits of history which don't make good movies ...
We did learn about Dresden from a mandatory reading of Farenheit 451. There was also lots of classtime spent talking about the european theater. Other than that most of history was glossed over, especially the events in the pacific and the controversy over using nukes. More importantly dark eras of U.S. history were not mentioned in detail. The events surrounding the Vietnam war, Cuba, Iran-contra, and various other spectacular failures in U.S. foreign policy.

[SunWuKong]

history education is so flaky in the US. high school students should be made to take 4 years of history. well, wait, maybe it's different now, and depending on the state. i was only required to take 2 years of history.

[Martino]

(snip)We did learn about Dresden from a mandatory reading of Farenheit 451...

... which was a work of fiction. Wonderful.

I've not yet read Farenheit 451, but the bombing of Dresden featured in Slaughterhouse 5 too.

[Blue dice]

... which was a work of fiction. Wonderful.

I've not yet read Farenheit 451, but the bombing of Dresden featured in Slaughterhouse 5 too.
Actually I meant Slaughterhouse 5 not Fahrenheit 451. I always get those two mixed up because they both involve fire and destruction.

[Emperor_Mike]

Read a history book. It's the best way to learn.

[SunWuKong]

Read a history book. It's the best way to learn.

depends on who wrote the book...

[seanp]

depends on who wrote the book...

:tongue:

[Emperor_Mike]

depends on who wrote the book...

Naturally. :smile: