Prison time for hate speech

[>:^|]

full story at: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122203german_lat,1,1606548.story?coll=la-home-headlines

German Imprison Right-Wing Singer
By Jeffrey Fleishman, Times Staff Writer

BERLIN — In the first case of its kind in Germany, a right-wing rock band was deemed a criminal organization and its lead singer was sentenced today to more than three years in prison for lyrics that venerate Nazism and incite racial hatred.

A Berlin criminal court sentenced Michael Regener, 38, to 40 months in prison after a six-month trial that tested the bounds of free expression in a nation with strict laws against hate speech. The court ruled that Regener's band, known as Landser, is a threat to Germany's Jews and millions of African and Muslim immigrants.

The band's bass player, Andre Moericke, and its drummer, Christian Wenndorf, were each sentenced to nearly two years probation and ordered to perform 90 hours of community service. Founded in 1992 as the Final Solution, the band has been a favorite of neo-Nazis worldwide and a troubling voice of intolerance for minorities.

For an interesting argument about why hate speech should not be considered protected speech, read Mari Matsuda.

[mr. x]

its definetely a good debate. on the one hand who really cares about nazis, i mean i think german law is iffy on the subject.

on the other hand theres that "i dont agree with you but ill die to defend your right to say it" idea, cuz if we dont defend the nazis then where tdoes the line get drawn?

[Emperor_Mike]

The European Convention on Human Rights covers free speech in Article 10. Unlike the United States, limits are placed on just how much speech can be considered as "free" especially when it comes to expression that offends the public, causes unrest, etc, etc. On the surface it seems as though it gives the signatory governments of the ECHR plenty of room to supress freedom of expression, but in reality if the State oversteps its margin of appreciation on matters pertaining to the article, the Court in Strasbourg can offer remedies to the aggrieved parties. Granted, it cannot strike out national rulings, but the damages given may be of some help.

Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the individuals in the article apply to Strasbourg for an alleged breach of Article 10. But I'm equally sure that the judges of the ECHR will invoke Article 10(2) to throw out the case.

[Banana]

They're Nazies.

Who really cares what Nazies have to say anyway?

[SunWuKong]

ironically, that's kind of a nazi thing to do, jailing that guy. heh.

[Danny]

They're Nazies.

Who really cares what Nazies have to say anyway?

I am sure the jews care about what the Nazi's say.....

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I'm confused how this is the "first case of its kind." Promotion of National Socialism, sale of its memorabilia, use of its slogans, etc. has always been a crime in Germany since their defeat in WWII. The first example of the law being applied to a band?

[mr. x]

thats the problem with this. the ACLU of course would say give them their voice, but at the same time i personally would not go out of way to help nazies based on a good principle (like free speech). i mean yeah more than likely they would not do the same for me, but yeah its like the war in Iraq to me, i really dont oppose it all that much cuz i figure something good'll come of it, but at the same time i know its all based on bullshit

[Banana]

I am sure the jews care about what the Nazi's say.....

I mean what they have to say nowadays.

Personally, I couldn't care less.

[Faithless]

I keep wondering if this rock group, Landser, would respect the free speech rights of the very people it totally despises.

[yoMAMA]

this is a little OT, but a taiwan election ad just compared ah bian to hitler!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3504580.stm

:eek:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39880000/jpg/_39880404_hitler203_ap.jpg

[DavidJoo]

ironically, that's kind of a nazi thing to do, jailing that guy. heh.

Actually the Gestapo would come and take you away...and either execute you and your extended family, or haul you and your extended family off to a concentration camp (real ones).

Let's not make hasty comparisons to one of the most brutal regimes of this century.

[bluemonq]

thats the problem with this. the ACLU of course would say give them their voice, but at the same time i personally would not go out of way to help nazies based on a good principle (like free speech). i mean yeah more than likely they would not do the same for me, but yeah its like the war in Iraq to me, i really dont oppose it all that much cuz i figure something good'll come of it, but at the same time i know its all based on bullshit
off-topic: not trying to start a flame or anything but...
its all based on bullshit
you don't care that the president lied to the united states? and before someone tries to compare this to clinton, war >> affair
back on topic: here's the only problem. i think it can be agreed upon that the majority of people think the nazis were/are bad. but if their speech is banned...say that the majority of people hate whatever group *you* belong to; they think that what you do is offensive (say, i don't know, eating meat). do they have a right to stop you from telling people eating meat is good? there's a flaw in my analogy, i know, but i can't find it; have only slept 8 of the past 52 hours. somebody help me.