Solidarity with your Asian brothers & sisters?

[>:^|]

So I was bored one day and was flipping through a stack of resumes. One of my friends was hiring a systems person and asked me what I thought of a couple of the candidates. And I urged him to hire the young Asian guy over the other two candidates. My friend was a little hesitant because the guy's English isn't very strong. However, this position doesn't require a lot of people contact. I also argued that maybe his company needs some diversity. Plus the guy lived in my old neighborhood. <VBG>

So the guy got hired on a "provisional" basis. Turns out he was plenty smart and good for the job.

And then he got fired. Get this--he was hacking into the system from home. Not to cause mischief, but to get free internet access.

My first thought was How stupid can you be? The guy didn't have a college degree and didn't have a very good work history. This was a really great job with great opportunity.

My second was I been betrayed!

Okay, I know it sounds irrational. But are there times when you feel like somebody betrayed your race or ethnicity? One of my Japanese American friends was pissed off because a Japanese guy here got nailed on pedophile charges. She felt he was an embarrassment to the community. :tongue:

[seoulone]

that's shitty...When you are a person of color, it is frustrating to have to constantly represent your ethnic group/ race. I mean really why should we have to? Unfortunately that's how it is. In the back of our minds we know that our bad actions will reflect on us a whole. Dumb people don't see the individual they see the race.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Yea haha it's like one of the black comedians (I forgot which one) who said, 'Every time I see a black guy on the news getting arrested for robbing a market or some shit, I think...'damn!'

[nonamerasian]

I know a lot of people who feel like that.

In your situation I may have because of a couple of reasons, but in general, I usually don't feel like that.

[hooligan]

ah, then again he was doing some stupid shit. you're not to blame, it's more the integrity of the person.

then again, when a person of a particular ethnicity does stupid shit, the community always puts out a letter or public statement which basically says that they (the perp) don't represent the community.

[Fireblade]

Not one person's actions represent a whole group. I try to keep that ideology in mind whenever I see something in the wrong.

[nicedream]

i feel i'm representing all the time. i blame the fact that the places i grew up did not have very many asians.

[kasia]

actually, no. i wouldn't feel responsible for his actions b/c he is asian. but maybe b/c i urged my boss to hire him.

the only times i feel like an asian is "betraying my ethnicity" is when...he takes obvious actions that are insulting to asians. e.g., michelle malkin and her skewed analysis of the abercrombie campaign. kelly hu and statement about asian men in a lame attempt to impress the white writers of maxim. etc. etc.

[Blue dice]

kelly hu and statement about asian men in a lame attempt to impress the white writers of maxim. etc. etc.
What did she say exactly?

I consider people like Amy Tan, Malkin, etc.. cut from the same cloth. I don't even try to consider them asian because they've done more to collectively harm asians. It's kind of sad we have these type of people amongst us, I feel a lot of it is an inferiority complex. Now matter how much they bash asians they will never be white.

[krome]

It's kinda weird to FIRE him for free net access. Usually, they'd give a warning first, and then a lay-off if it happened again.

Blue dice - Exact quotes from Stuff magazine July 2003 (#14) interview:

Greg Gutfeld: You starred in Martial Law, costarring Sammo Hung. Is his middle name Well or Not Well?
Kelly Hu: He's Asian - you figure it out.

Greg Gutfeld: You used to date an investment banker. Do you have a thing for boring guys?
Kelly Hu: [I've dated] a couple of them. I have a thing for guys who can help me invest my money.

Sounds like a racist, gold-digging size queen. It's amazing she would ignorantly diss a guy who got her a job on his show - not to mention her own race of men. Well, I guess now that she's crossed-over she can jettison her AM fan base that helped get her there. Also, that type of racist insult does not DIRECTLY target her as a female so I guess it's acceptable, even funny to her. Also, I've only heard of her dating non-Asian men, so how would she even know?

[Blue dice]

Someday we need to come up with a list of political/media visible strong asian women who haven't used it to bash asian men. I bet it'll be a lot smaller than the sellout list (Amy tan et al) but it'll be interesting to see who's in it.

Kelly Hu and other morons like Malkin, Tan, etc.. aren't doing anything to empower asians or women. They are still stroking the white male's ego (so no female empowerment there) and on the same coin they are bashing their own ethnicity. Not only does it make them look undignified but downright pathetic. It's like those jews who helped police and round up other jews for the Nazis. They were treated like pets by their Nazi superiors but still held at arm's length with derision because they were viewed as pathetic servile creatures willing to sellout their own to please their masters. It's truly the lowest of the low, these people are worse than neo nazi skinheads.

[ChairmanMah]

Someday we need to come up with a list of political/media visible strong asian women who haven't used it to bash asian men. I bet it'll be a lot smaller than the sellout list (Amy tan et al) but it'll be interesting to see who's in it.

Kelly Hu and other morons like Malkin, Tan, etc.. aren't doing anything to empower asians or women. They are still stroking the white male's ego (so no female empowerment there) and on the same coin they are bashing their own ethnicity. Not only does it make them look undignified but downright pathetic. It's like those jews who helped police and round up other jews for the Nazis. They were treated like pets by their Nazi superiors but still held at arm's length with derision because they were viewed as pathetic servile creatures willing to sellout their own to please their masters. It's truly the lowest of the low, these people are worse than neo nazi skinheads.

that's what i've been saying all along. these ignorant whores are more racist towards their own race than any race could ever be. at least the am's brought you here. those skinhead screwups just wanna screw you. they ain't done nothin' for ya.

at least have the decency to keep it to yourself if you feel that way you disrespecting p.o.s.

[krome]

Can someone say "The Warrior Skylark" (http://modelminority.com/article619.html&mode=&order=0&thold=0) (is that her official KKK title? :rolleyes:), I mean uh, Maxine Hong Kingston...

"Kingston was ambivalent about The Woman Warrior and China Men being published as non-fiction. "It was the beginning of the Asian pride movement and defining what's Asian-American or Chinese-American; we didn't want our literature categorised as anthropology or sociology," she says. Early readers may have mistaken her metaphors for fact - as when her mother cuts her tongue to silence her or free her voice."

Asian pride? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :confused: I think she's confused "feminism" with "misandrism" and "Asian-hating" with "Asian pride."

This qualifies her work as EXTREMELY DANGEROUS SUBVERSIVE PROPAGANDA just like The Last Samurai. It's sugar-coated lies. The only thing more dangerous than a flat-out lie is one mixed with a lot of truth (like many religions). Many igmos who watch The Last Samurai will really believe there was a white American Samurai. Similarly, many who read Kingston's books will not be able to separate fact from fiction either. H*ll, I don't think I could myself, and I'm Asian - one would have to be an expert on historical Asian culture to. In fact, that's how she gets away with it - there's little fact-checking on stuff so distant in space/time/culture. So, how the h*ll would her target audience of white folk, feminists and AFs know? Answer: they can't and won't. Gee, maybe literature like this is where Jew/white Ho-Wood gets all its racistly false stereotypes? <expletive deleted>

"One persistent critic, the US playwright and writer Frank Chin, has excoriated her, as well as Tan and David Henry Hwang, who wrote M Butterfly, for "faking" Chinese lore, depicting a cruel China informed by Christian stereotypes, and misrepresenting Chinese-Americans as having lost touch with ancestral culture. Tan dismisses such critics as "literary fascists". But Lim sees grounds for the anxiety that Kingston's "representations of patriarchal, abusive Chinese history were playing to a desire to look at Asians as an inferior spectacle"."

I wonder what else she fakes, lol?

[Chester]

I'd be interested in hearing what you guys think about what an author's responsibility is, in terms of portraying history -- specifically in terms of how they might be responsibility for the misinterpretations of utter morons.

There are a vast number of fictional works that incorporate true, historical elements amongst the fiction or that skew history to fit the fiction. At what point do you draw the line? How much history can be included in an overridingly fictional piece that isn't generally presented as history? At what point does an artist lose his artistic license?

As a specific case, I don't think that The Last Samurai is presented as history. I don't think it ever really implies that it's history. There isn't even any quasi-historical prologue that one usually encounters in "historical" movies (and even total fiction, as in Star Wars' "In a galaxy far, far away..."). It's presented as what it is: a fictional war epic set in a particular period.

If you were to poll an audience coming out of the theater and asked whether or not they thought the Algren character was based on an actual historical person, I would be surprised if more than a pittance responded yes -- particularly after you compensated for the morons who walked into movies like Gladiator or Young Guns and thought they were history.

[>:^|]

I didn't feel like I was at fault, or anything. Just annoyed that he was such a dumb cluck. My friend actually laughed at me because I moaned, "My brother has let me down!" when he gave me the news.

My theory has always been that if I have two or three potential candidates and all things are approximately equal, I will give the person with minority status (race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever) preference. I do this when I pick suppliers, health care providers, etc. So my friend (who is White) agreed with me on this although he slightly preferred another candidate.

I felt like going over to the guy's place and hitting him on the head. :tongue:

[hooligan]

I didn't feel like I was at fault, or anything. Just annoyed that he was such a dumb cluck. My friend actually laughed at me because I moaned, "My brother has let me down!" when he gave me the news.

My theory has always been that if I have two or three potential candidates and all things are approximately equal, I will give the person with minority status (race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever) preference. I do this when I pick suppliers, health care providers, etc. So my friend (who is White) agreed with me on this although he slightly preferred another candidate.

I felt like going over to the guy's place and hitting him on the head. :tongue:
i would too, the guy sounds like an ass. you cut a guy a break and have them backstab you by doing stupid shit.

[mr. x]

u know what this reminds me of? the episode of King of the Hill where Hank hires this young white dude over a (much more qualified) Mexican woman cuz he can talk football with the dude and "cant relate" to the Mexican woman

turns out the white dudes a crackhead

[krome]

I'd be interested in hearing what you guys think about what an author's responsibility is, in terms of portraying history -- specifically in terms of how they might be responsibility for the misinterpretations of utter morons.
Well, what exactly is the motivation behind authors like Amy Tan sneaking in grossly patently false hyperboles like, "a fairy tale that measures the worth of a woman by her husband's belch?" (http://modelminority.com/article443.html)

Also, as "feminist" authors who grew up in America, not historical China, why not write about WHITE s*xism and WHITE racism here in their own life context? Why only target historical Chinese s*xism an ocean and generations away? I mean, Amy Tan never even set foot in China until she was 35, and I don't believe is even fluent in Chinese. So, where's her cultural "cred?" Moreso, white female authors don't write historical American novels with such s*xist tunnel vision. It just seems these authors' personal biased agendas stongly overshadow reality in every work they write.

I guess as authors, they have no real obligation other than to line their wallets. So, ultimately, we have the obligation to educate the mainstream audience about the veracity (or lack of) of their work though. Clearly, whites (and many Asians) have eaten their works up like hallucinogenic spacecakes creating a mass hallucination. :frown:

[ChinaLama]

dude, why do you censor out *sexism?" it's not a curse word. rellllllllllaxxxx guy.

[krome]

^s*xism trips off net filters...anything with "s*x"

[ChinaLama]

doesn't trip off our filters. go ahead and use sex, fuck, etc.

[lethal]

Maybe its because I grew up in a predominantly white area, but I feel like I have to represent Asians. One time I was eating at a restaurant and the service was slightly below average. I wasn't happy about it, but I still left a decent tip because I didn't want to leave them the impression that Asians were bad tippers. Who knows, maybe there are only like 2 Asians that come in a month. I don't want them to get shitty service because I left a shitty tip.

I think we all owe each other that responsibility. Whether we choose to honor it, that's an individual decision.

[kitty]

... Maxine Hong Kingston is a poet... she writes in metaphor. Why is she being blamed for readers who don't realize that?

Back on topic -- I think it's part of the institutional oppression of racial minorities that they must constantly be not only themselves but representative of an entire racial culture to the white mainstream. The guy was an idiot for hacking the system, but that's a whole 'nother story. I think it's fine that you were upset, and for many different reasons. There's nothing wrong with it, because it's only natural. Similarly, we feel pride when we talk about Yao Ming... *because* he's Asian and a basketball star.

It's part of trying to maintain a cultural community in a world that would threaten to assimilate and destroy it.

However, I hope your boss didn't get upset at *you* for your recommendation.

[mr. x]

Maybe its because I grew up in a predominantly white area, but I feel like I have to represent Asians. One time I was eating at a restaurant and the service was slightly below average. I wasn't happy about it, but I still left a decent tip because I didn't want to leave them the impression that Asians were bad tippers. Who knows, maybe there are only like 2 Asians that come in a month. I don't want them to get shitty service because I left a shitty tip.

I think we all owe each other that responsibility. Whether we choose to honor it, that's an individual decision.

man, several months ago me and my family were up in tahoe and at the squaw valley village pizza place (which is pretty good typically) we had one day where the service was pretty damn slow and even though the waitress acted nice and told us it was coming we got kinda sick of seeing all the white tables get served first. anyway we got served just before we up and left but yeah my dad tipped "okay" i guess but i kinda wonder about such a situation.

i remember chris rock talking about how his limo driver was this kid who used to spit on him back in the racist high school he went to and he tipped the guy extra high. so i wonder is it better to tip low to such poor service (maybe the last asians they served tip low? who knows) or tip high and they'll be like "wow thems asians arent as jewish as ive heard huh?"

[Blue dice]

i remember chris rock talking about how his limo driver was this kid who used to spit on him back in the racist high school he went to and he tipped the guy extra high. so i wonder is it better to tip low to such poor service (maybe the last asians they served tip low? who knows) or tip high and they'll be like "wow thems asians arent as jewish as ive heard huh?"
When people act like dicks when they're supposed to doing their job I don't tip at all. Nothing says I should reward that behavior with monetary compensation.

[mr. x]

When people act like dicks when they're supposed to doing their job I don't tip at all. Nothing says I should reward that behavior with monetary compensation.

exactly, if i were the tipper id probly skip it cuz id be too pissed to care about being nice to em, stereotype or not. i consider myself a generous person anyway...

[ChinaLama]

When people act like dicks when they're supposed to doing their job I don't tip at all. Nothing says I should reward that behavior with monetary compensation.

word. or if the service is really just unbearably shitty, i'd give them a few cents to show that i can tip, but i'm not gonna give them real money cuz they're dicks. But then again I've never actually *done* that. Once my friend was pissed at our service at a place, tho. He smacked a quarter on the check.

[SunWuKong]

Maybe its because I grew up in a predominantly white area, but I feel like I have to represent Asians. One time I was eating at a restaurant and the service was slightly below average. I wasn't happy about it, but I still left a decent tip because I didn't want to leave them the impression that Asians were bad tippers. Who knows, maybe there are only like 2 Asians that come in a month. I don't want them to get shitty service because I left a shitty tip.


wouldn't a case like that kind of depend on the area you live in or the restaurants you go to? i go to Asian restaurants about 80% or 90% of the time, and usually there are more Asian customers than non-Asian customers. so i don't really feel like i have to represent Asian people in tipping etiquette. if it's bad service, i'll just tip badly. and same thing can be said of other things. i don't really feel any obligation to represent Asian people because there usually seems to be enough Asian people around that i expect people to not use me as an example of how most Asian people act.

[lethal]

wouldn't a case like that kind of depend on the area you live in or the restaurants you go to? i go to Asian restaurants about 80% or 90% of the time, and usually there are more Asian customers than non-Asian customers. so i don't really feel like i have to represent Asian people in tipping etiquette. if it's bad service, i'll just tip badly. and same thing can be said of other things. i don't really feel any obligation to represent Asian people because there usually seems to be enough Asian people around that i expect people to not use me as an example of how most Asian people act.

That's true. I was in a predominantly white area in a restaurant that I would expect few Asians to go to.

I don't feel the pressure to represent the entire race if I figure that the staff is exposed to Asians on a regular basis.

[krome]

doesn't trip off our filters.
Well, some other peoples' filters it does. Trust me, I have no qualms otherwise!

... Maxine Hong Kingston is a poet... she writes in metaphor. Why is she being blamed for readers who don't realize that?
Like I said, technically, artists have the right to portray anything they want.
But readers also have the right to criticize and rebut false portrayals. And the Asian community almost has a duty to, because otherwise "silence = aceptance."

As far as tipping, I always tip ~15% on average, only less to make a point that the service was bad. Are Asians really repped as bad tippers, tho? The funnier rep I thought was calculating the tip to precisely 15%! (No offense), but I heard blacks were more known for low tipping? Any (ex)waiters/waitresses here?

[>:^|]

The hiring person was a friend, not a boss. And he didn't really care. I don't think that he is less likely to hire an Asian again as a result, but I know other people might be.

I had an argument once with a supervisor who was adamant that we would not hire another African American because the last one had performed so poorly. I reminded her that the employee whom the African American replaced was a White who was terminated for dishonesty. So I thought we shouldn't hire any more Whites. :tongue:

lethalweapon wrote the following:

Maybe its because I grew up in a predominantly white area, but I feel like I have to represent Asians.
* * *
I think we all owe each other that responsibility. Whether we choose to honor it, that's an individual decision.

which made me think about this a little more. My parents were always very aware of the idea of "representing" and our responsibility to our larger community. So that thought was ingrained in me from a very early age.

[kitty]

Like I said, technically, artists have the right to portray anything they want.
But readers also have the right to criticize and rebut false portrayals. And the Asian community almost has a duty to, because otherwise "silence = aceptance."


Okaaay... yes you have the right to criticize, but I don't understand the criticism since most of her work is pointing to the silence of the Asian woman as a negative thing. She's making a pointed observation of oppression ... and people are criticizing her work for being what she is fighting against?

This seems so highly illogical to me.

[SunWuKong]

She's making a pointed observation of oppression

i haven't read Kingston's work, but people who criticise her work will probably disagree with that.

[kitty]

i haven't read Kingston's work, but people who criticise her work will probably disagree with that.

... yeah... people who criticize her work will probably find any reason to call her a sellout.

[Emperor_Mike]

I don't play favourites. I work purely on merit. It's far more efficient this way and you can maximise productivity when choosing who you want to work with (in my case since I'm not in a position to hire people. :tongue:)

[SunWuKong]

... yeah... people who criticize her work will probably find any reason to call her a sellout.

come now, having that kind of attitude is just as bad as the people you're criticising. i'm sure not all her critics do that.

[hooligan]

i agree with lethal, i usually leave a better than average tip when i go to restaurants. people like my dad usually don't leave anything. i mean, if the service is abnormally bad, i usually leave a bad tip, but in all other situations it's usually better than average (meaning > 15%).