double minority [Archive] - Yellowworld Forums

tapestrybabe

08-19-2002, 03:29 AM

i had only taken one women study course in college. It was all cool... discussing about feminism and all... but race never played an important role in that class... Being asian, asian american... seemed irrelevant... the emphasis was all about our roles and identity as being a female....

And while i never taken as Asian American study course.. when i think about my Asian identity... i think about its culture, its music... or i think about my experiences growing up asian and ppls attitudes towards me... and its my asian identity that i place more emphasis on...

Me, I feel being a female and asian.. are both equally important... Their attributes about myself that i can not change... So i accept these 2 traits as who i am... and just deal with it... However, i feel often times...one gets more emphasis placed over another... depending on what i'm discussing...

artsfartsyjanet

08-19-2002, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 19 2002, 04:29 AM
i had only taken one women study course in college. It was all cool... discussing about feminism and all... but race never played an important role in that class... Being asian, asian american... seemed irrelevant... the emphasis was all about our roles and identity as being a female....

And while i never taken as Asian American study course.. when i think about my Asian identity... i think about its culture, its music... or i think about my experiences growing up asian and ppls attitudes towards me... and its my asian identity that i place more emphasis on...

Me, I feel being a female and asian.. are both equally important... Their attributes about myself that i can not change... So i accept these 2 traits as who i am... and just deal with it... However, i feel often times...one gets more emphasis placed over another... depending on what i'm discussing...
That's how I feel. When I go anywhere, for example, and I happen to be the only one who isn't white (which often happens), I think damn I'm the only Asian female in this joint. :lol: Sometimes, it's good to be noticed, but I don't like to be in the spotlight all the time because it makes me feel uncomfortable to be this "spectacle." It's actually sad because it's perhaps I've been reading so much about prejudice against Asians that part of me has this inferiority complex when I'm the only one of a "kind". Have any of you felt that way when you attended an engagement where you are practically the only Asian there? I left a wedding reception soon after the bride arrived. I was THE only asian woman there in a wave of Caucasians. Most of them were much older than me. Had I been able to spot my coworkers from afar, I would've stayed in that little comfort zone, but because I didn't see any of them (since they were camouflaged by a sea of caucasians), I just left after congratulating the bride. As comfortable as I think I was with myself, it's different when we find ourselves in isolated situations like that. It's different in high school where all the females were practically entirely caucasian. The possible war veterans of Vietnam, Korea, and WWII I'm sure existed at the wedding, but I wouldn't know unless I asked. Sad, isn't it? :rolleyes:

tapestrybabe

08-19-2002, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 19 2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 19 2002, 04:29 AM
i had only taken one women study course in college. It was all cool... discussing about feminism and all... but race never played an important role in that class... Being asian, asian american... seemed irrelevant... the emphasis was all about our roles and identity as being a female....

And while i never taken as Asian American study course.. when i think about my Asian identity... i think about its culture, its music... or i think about my experiences growing up asian and ppls attitudes towards me... and its my asian identity that i place more emphasis on...

Me, I feel being a female and asian.. are both equally important... Their attributes about myself that i can not change... So i accept these 2 traits as who i am... and just deal with it... However, i feel often times...one gets more emphasis placed over another... depending on what i'm discussing...
That's how I feel. When I go anywhere, for example, and I happen to be the only one who isn't white (which often happens), I think damn I'm the only Asian female in this joint. :lol:
thats not what i was really saying. As i remember the class was pretty mixed... black, latinos, whites... Jersey City State College is a pretty diverse campus.. actually.. its the white students that prolly are the minority on that campus... what i was trying to express is that in my womens study course... (which i took a long time ago) but as my memory serves me... it was focused on the roles of females.. whether it be in the work place, within the family, relationships... we talked about abuse, self advocacy.... etc...etc...etc... and the fact that i was asian.. didn't really seem to make a difference.. cuz like it was about talking about women issues... Being female was the central issue in that class.. but being an Asian female.. seemed irrelevant...

And when it comes to being the only Asian in an all white crowd... thats the type of environment that i had grown up in-- whether it be within my family and community... so, its something that has always been familiar to me. Its only when i started to hang out with other Asians.. is when i felt like i didn't belong. However, as i started to get more intuned with my own asian idenitity... i started to grow accustomed to associating with my ppl.... and its like this for me now... when i am the only asian in an all white crowd... i admit, i do feel comfortable... but it accentuates my feelings of asian ness about me... and its this type of situation... when i feel being Asian comes first.... cuz thats what i feel most strongly inside of me...

Another example of feeling my asian ness coming first... was during Korea and The World Cup Soccer game.. Boy, its me being Korean.. that made me want them to win so bad.... didn't matter that i was female...

and i dont know what i'm trying to say now... but where are my times when can i feel like being an ASIAN and FEMALE... comes equally important at the same time?? I'm not sure yet... cuz i lack the ability sometimes to place the same emphasis of being asian when i talk about womens issues..

artsfartsyjanet

08-19-2002, 09:09 PM

tapestrybabe writes:Me, I feel being a female and asian.. are both equally important... Their attributes about myself that i can not change... So i accept these 2 traits as who i am... and just deal with it... However, i feel often times...one gets more emphasis placed over another... depending on what i'm discussing...

Actually, allow me to clarify myself. I was actually responding to your statement "Me, I feel being A female and asian... are both equally important...." That's how I feel. As for your woman's study course and how you find it separate from your Asian identity, that's obviously our difference in our upbringing. My Asian identity and the issues I go through as a woman go hand-in-hand with me b/c I've always thought of it that way. The two were always paired...maybe not ALL the time, but simply speaking, a strong association exists to me.

kasia

09-26-2002, 08:23 PM

what about the rest of ya?

SunWuKong

09-26-2002, 08:54 PM

you are speaking specifically of asian american females, right?

kasia

09-28-2002, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 03:54 AM
you are speaking specifically of asian american females, right?
right.

SunWuKong

09-28-2002, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 03:54 AM
you are speaking specifically of asian american females, right?
right.
well... there's margaret cho and her jokes about fisting...

kasia

09-28-2002, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 28 2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 03:54 AM
you are speaking specifically of asian american females, right?
right.
well... there's margaret cho and her jokes about fisting...
margaret cho is asian? j/k.

but what exactly are these jokes?

SunWuKong

09-28-2002, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 28 2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 03:54 AM
you are speaking specifically of asian american females, right?
right.
well... there's margaret cho and her jokes about fisting...
margaret cho is asian? j/k.

but what exactly are these jokes?
she was talking about being fisted by a tiny little lesbian called ilene, and ilene was saying, "who's your daddy?", and she said, "ilene??"

kasia

09-28-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 28 2002, 09:17 PM
she was talking about being fisted by a tiny little lesbian called ilene, and ilene was saying, "who's your daddy?", and she said, "ilene??"
in your opinion, how does her joke reflect her identity as both asian and female?

SunWuKong

09-28-2002, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by kasia@Sep 28 2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 28 2002, 09:17 PM
she was talking about being fisted by a tiny little lesbian called ilene, and ilene was saying, "who's your daddy?", and she said, "ilene??"
in your opinion, how does her joke reflect her identity as both asian and female?
she goes over her state of being asian in this country, but that particular joke didn't really reflect her identity as an asian person, it probably says something about her female identity though, i just don't know what. there doesn't seem to be anything "typical" about margaret cho so it probably takes a pretty unique person to look up to her views on sexuality.

kasia

10-02-2002, 08:34 PM

i think the discussion that went on in the 'appearance' thread best demonstrates what i meant by 'double minority'. on the one hand, many of us asian women will join asian clubs/activist groups, etc., in college. however, within these groups, there will be talk amongst the asian males about wanting their women to be housewives or how women are hoes, etc. basically, men who don't truly understand the 'woman's plight'. then, you will join feminist groups or volunteer at battered woman's shelters or take classes on feminism only to hear the perspectives of white women--and to learn that your experience as an asian woman will only be marginalized in true academic feminist discourse. in other words, you will be stuck here with people who understand the woman's plight, but know nothing about, and frankly do not care to know anything about, the plight of a minority.

SunWuKong

10-03-2002, 01:26 AM

i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.

kasia

10-03-2002, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian.  she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?

SunWuKong

10-03-2002, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 3 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?
no. this is a personal college friend of mine. who's sophia shah?

stephanie

10-04-2002, 03:26 AM

I admit being an asian female isn't exactly a piece of cake, but my brother who's homosexual doesn't have it easy either.

kasia

10-05-2002, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 3 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?
no. this is a personal college friend of mine. who's sophia shah?
she's the author of 'dragon ladies'. maybe your friend will be enjoy it--sounds like they're coming from the same perspective.

SunWuKong

10-05-2002, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 3 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?
no. this is a personal college friend of mine. who's sophia shah?
she's the author of 'dragon ladies'. maybe your friend will be enjoy it--sounds like they're coming from the same perspective.
ok maybe. not sure she'll relate to the whole "dragon" thing, which is more east asian than south asian. she is nepalese and she was born and raised in the philippines. went to international schools her whole life and then went to college in the states at the same school as me. and i think she relates more to gay/lesbian people than asian people in america - who she thinks are mostly white-washed anyway and thereby finds the whole asian pride thing a big irony.

Craig

10-05-2002, 03:20 AM

Aren't the Asian females that see themselves as female first, without too much consideration for the "Asian" part, most likely not going to be stopping by on a website called YellowWorld ? I know of quite a few people that fit that profile.

kasia

10-05-2002, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 5 2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 3 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?
no. this is a personal college friend of mine. who's sophia shah?
she's the author of 'dragon ladies'. maybe your friend will be enjoy it--sounds like they're coming from the same perspective.
ok maybe. not sure she'll relate to the whole "dragon" thing, which is more east asian than south asian. she is nepalese and she was born and raised in the philippines. went to international schools her whole life and then went to college in the states at the same school as me. and i think she relates more to gay/lesbian people than asian people in america - who she thinks are mostly white-washed anyway and thereby finds the whole asian pride thing a big irony.
sonia shah is south asian. it's actually an anthology with works by various women re: asian feminsim, some of which are lesbian. try recommending the book to her.

kasia

10-05-2002, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:20 AM
Aren't the Asian females that see themselves as female first, without too much consideration for the "Asian" part, most likely not going to be stopping by on a website called YellowWorld ? I know of quite a few people that fit that profile.
good point, although i'm not sure i'd completely agree with it. do the people you know refuse to acknowledge their asian-side at all? or do they just identify with being female first and then with being asian?

SunWuKong

10-05-2002, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 5 2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 3 2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 3 2002, 08:26 AM
i have heard a similar "rant" by an asian lesbian. she was basically saying that mainstream society doesn't care about lesbianism, and the gay/lesbian communities don't care about asians.
was her name sophia shah?
no. this is a personal college friend of mine. who's sophia shah?
she's the author of 'dragon ladies'. maybe your friend will be enjoy it--sounds like they're coming from the same perspective.
ok maybe. not sure she'll relate to the whole "dragon" thing, which is more east asian than south asian. she is nepalese and she was born and raised in the philippines. went to international schools her whole life and then went to college in the states at the same school as me. and i think she relates more to gay/lesbian people than asian people in america - who she thinks are mostly white-washed anyway and thereby finds the whole asian pride thing a big irony.
sonia shah is south asian. it's actually an anthology with works by various women re: asian feminsim, some of which are lesbian. try recommending the book to her.
oh ok. well i would recommend the book to her, except that the last email she sent me a couple of years ago said that she hated my guts and would not read any further emails from me and that i shouldn't bother sending any more emails. i guess i can try to recommend it through a mutual friend? :(

kasia

10-05-2002, 03:34 AM

well, i'd recommend this book to anyone. i disagree with a lot of the perspectives in it, but it's interesting to read about how others out there feel. it's more or less based on identity politics. maybe i should put this in the book review forum as well. the preface is by yuri kochiyama, who currently lives in oakand, ca, btw. it's my understanding that yuri fought alongside malcom x.

Craig

10-05-2002, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:20 AM
Aren't the Asian females that see themselves as female first, without too much consideration for the "Asian" part, most likely not going to be stopping by on a website called YellowWorld ?  I know of quite a few people that fit that profile.
good point, although i'm not sure i'd completely agree with it. do the people you know refuse to acknowledge their asian-side at all? or do they just identify with being female first and then with being asian?

Don't really hang around such people in general, but I guess they're the ones who seem to fit the white-washed profile mainly. I have known of some situations like when a girl I knew was telling me she was avoiding doing things that were Asian, like "I don't want to buy that kind of car it's an Asian car", or "I don't want to go there, they're too many Asians". Also, some of those types of people might had said things like "Oh, you're Eurasian", "So am I, well, not really I guess I'm Asian but I'm basically white".

SunWuKong

10-05-2002, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 05:34 AM
well, i'd recommend this book to anyone.  i disagree with a lot of the perspectives in it, but it's interesting to read about how others out there feel.  it's more or less based on identity politics.  maybe i should put this in the book review forum as well.  the preface is by yuri kochiyama, who currently lives in oakand, ca, btw.  it's my understanding that yuri fought alongside malcom x.
yuri kochiyama was the actually person holding malcom x's head after he fell down from being shot. interestingly enough, in his film, spike lee chose to leave out the little detail about a japanese woman holding malcom's head as he was dying.

and i thought she lived in harlem?

SunWuKong

10-05-2002, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Craig@Oct 5 2002, 10:20 AM
Aren't the Asian females that see themselves as female first, without too much consideration for the "Asian" part, most likely not going to be stopping by on a website called YellowWorld ? I know of quite a few people that fit that profile.
good point, although i'm not sure i'd completely agree with it. do the people you know refuse to acknowledge their asian-side at all? or do they just identify with being female first and then with being asian?

Don't really hang around such people in general, but I guess they're the ones who seem to fit the white-washed profile mainly. I have known of some situations like when a girl I knew was telling me she was avoiding doing things that were Asian, like "I don't want to buy that kind of car it's an Asian car", or "I don't want to go there, they're too many Asians". Also, some of those types of people might had said things like "Oh, you're Eurasian", "So am I, well, not really I guess I'm Asian but I'm basically white".
i can understand the sense of not wanting to do things that are perceived to be the asian thing to do. i mean asian is part of my identity but it's not the sum total of my identity. i'd feel like a complete cliche if everything i did was an asian thing to do.

kasia

10-05-2002, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 5 2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Oct 5 2002, 05:34 AM
well, i'd recommend this book to anyone. i disagree with a lot of the perspectives in it, but it's interesting to read about how others out there feel. it's more or less based on identity politics. maybe i should put this in the book review forum as well. the preface is by yuri kochiyama, who currently lives in oakand, ca, btw. it's my understanding that yuri fought alongside malcom x.
yuri kochiyama was the actually person holding malcom x's head after he fell down from being shot. interestingly enough, in his film, spike lee chose to leave out the little detail about a japanese woman holding malcom's head as he was dying.

and i thought she lived in harlem?
she's in oakland, california now. you can visit her if you decide to come here for law school :)

in the white malcolm x hypothetical, would he still be fighting for black power? or white power?

kimpossible

10-12-2002, 12:48 PM

Whoah, topic changed a little from the heading I guess. Anyhow, to answer the original question I see my gender first before my ethnicity because I have a questionable ethnicity. However, I'm quite sure about my gender.

mydnyht

10-15-2002, 04:29 PM

When I'm forced to choose... (Geez, you people are making me THINK!! :P ) I think that I usually go with... ah... probably female... even tho I'm generally classified as Caucasian, I prefer to check off 'other' when I'm asked... Ok, call me 'white', but there are a lot of different aspects to that. I'm proud of being Irish and Scottish and German, and I'd rather identify with that than just a color.

SunWuKong

10-16-2002, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by mydnyht@Oct 15 2002, 06:29 PM
When I'm forced to choose... (Geez, you people are making me THINK!! :P ) I think that I usually go with... ah... probably female... even tho I'm generally classified as Caucasian, I prefer to check off 'other' when I'm asked... Ok, call me 'white', but there are a lot of different aspects to that. I'm proud of being Irish and Scottish and German, and I'd rather identify with that than just a color.
that's really good. most of the white people i know don't identify themselves like that. or when they do, they treat it like a hobby or something.

mydnyht

10-16-2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 16 2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by mydnyht@Oct 15 2002, 06:29 PM
When I'm forced to choose... (Geez, you people are making me THINK!!  :P  ) I think that I usually go with... ah... probably female... even tho I'm generally classified as Caucasian, I prefer to check off 'other' when I'm asked... Ok, call me 'white', but there are a lot of different aspects to that. I'm proud of being Irish and Scottish and German, and I'd rather identify with that than just a color.
that's really good. most of the white people i know don't identify themselves like that. or when they do, they treat it like a hobby or something.
:blushes: Thank you! I'm quite flattered.

tapestrybabe

10-19-2002, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Oct 12 2002, 02:48 PM
I see my gender first before my ethnicity because I have a questionable ethnicity.
i dont understand...
Ok, so you're a mix... but still.. why should that be seen as questionable?? I'm korean... thats not questionable...i cant change that... i am what i am... So, just because someone is a mix/hapa... why should someone have to question that?? You accept being Asian and your other half, and so forth... you are who you are... you cant change that.... So you can accept your ethnic identity just like the way you accept being female...

kasia

01-23-2003, 02:36 PM

*bump*

LCY

01-24-2003, 12:53 AM

I've been occupied with this question for a while. I think that being Asian American and a woman are equally important, but they're intersecting, not separate things for me. It's sort of creating a false dichotomy, in which you have to choose between one or the other, which sucks. But that is what often happens in real life. So, yes I was often forced to choose between my interests in women's issues and Asian American activism, especially between the various feminist orgs and Asian American orgs in college. I tried my best at attending both, but a person has only so much time. There are actually some pieces I read about being a double or triple minority by Black feminists like bell hooks and kimberle crenshaw, who also deal with this problem.

As an aside, I've encountered both subtle and overt acts of racism within feminist circles which either made me uncomfortable or want to hurl, but most (white) feminists I've met were pretty cool. Similarly, I've encountered both subtle and overt acts of sexism in Asian American activist circles, but most (Asian) guys were pretty cool.

silvernova

01-24-2003, 02:04 AM

I guess I have large whammy going on here - Asian, female, adopted and disabled. Only that my disability isn't visible like others such as blindness, being in wheelchair, etc., it's an invisible disability. No one out there is aware of it till I speak, then they will realize that I'm this. What's more, you'd call me pretty white-washed girl because I'm adopted and grew up with Caucasian family with their American ways. Even my name is Americanized, people who never met me assumed I'm white because of my American name, plus some people thought I'm a hapa, but I'm not. I'm full bloodied Korean. All guys I've dated are white (due to the fact the majority of population in my hometown is white with very small numbers of Asians and Latinos) but now I'm going out with a Mexican-American. I feel more comfortable with people who share same invisible disability like I do over being Asian-American, adopted or female because of the flexibility of communication and sharing same struggles and frustrations. Now, I'm trying to learn more about my culture and identity, although it's not that much due to the barrier to fluid communication and not knowing Korean language at all. But I thank my parents for raising me with fairly normal life and giving me good education that I'd not get otherwise with my condition, even in Korea. Education's the key for people like me to succeed and go far in life.

But I bet not a lot of you have met people like me? I can only assume that because you all are experiencing the same struggles as I do, only that I face and carry extra burden than the rest of you in comparsion when it comes to jobs, verbal communication and living the life of our dreams. Ironic that I ended up like this in this life, huh? :rolleyes:

kasia

01-24-2003, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by silvernova@Jan 24 2003, 01:04 AM
I guess I have large whammy going on here - Asian, female, adopted and disabled. Only that my disability isn't visible like others such as blindness, being in wheelchair, etc., it's an invisible disability. No one out there is aware of it till I speak, then they will realize that I'm this. What's more, you'd call me pretty white-washed girl because I'm adopted and grew up with Caucasian family with their American ways. Even my name is Americanized, people who never met me assumed I'm white because of my American name, plus some people thought I'm a hapa, but I'm not. I'm full bloodied Korean. All guys I've dated are white (due to the fact the majority of population in my hometown is white with very small numbers of Asians and Latinos) but now I'm going out with a Mexican-American. I feel more comfortable with people who share same invisible disability like I do over being Asian-American, adopted or female because of the flexibility of communication and sharing same struggles and frustrations. Now, I'm trying to learn more about my culture and identity, although it's not that much due to the barrier to fluid communication and not knowing Korean language at all. But I thank my parents for raising me with fairly normal life and giving me good education that I'd not get otherwise with my condition, even in Korea. Education's the key for people like me to succeed and go far in life.

But I bet not a lot of you have met people like me? I can only assume that because you all are experiencing the same struggles as I do, only that I face and carry extra burden than the rest of you in comparsion when it comes to jobs, verbal communication and living the life of our dreams. Ironic that I ended up like this in this life, huh? :rolleyes:
wow. well, i'm glad you're here at yw. it doesn't sound so much that you are disabled, but more that you've overcome a lot of obstacles.

BeTheReds

01-27-2003, 02:44 AM

This question is typically answered the same way by all minorities and differently by American Whites.

Almost all American white women say they are women before they are white.

Everyone else in the world will say they are whatever race or nationality (or both, when the two are the same) they are first.

BeTheReds

01-27-2003, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by silvernova@Jan 24 2003, 09:04 AM
I guess I have large whammy going on here - Asian, female, adopted and disabled. Only that my disability isn't visible like others such as blindness, being in wheelchair, etc., it's an invisible disability. No one out there is aware of it till I speak, then they will realize that I'm this. What's more, you'd call me pretty white-washed girl because I'm adopted and grew up with Caucasian family with their American ways. Even my name is Americanized, people who never met me assumed I'm white because of my American name, plus some people thought I'm a hapa, but I'm not. I'm full bloodied Korean. All guys I've dated are white (due to the fact the majority of population in my hometown is white with very small numbers of Asians and Latinos) but now I'm going out with a Mexican-American. I feel more comfortable with people who share same invisible disability like I do over being Asian-American, adopted or female because of the flexibility of communication and sharing same struggles and frustrations. Now, I'm trying to learn more about my culture and identity, although it's not that much due to the barrier to fluid communication and not knowing Korean language at all. But I thank my parents for raising me with fairly normal life and giving me good education that I'd not get otherwise with my condition, even in Korea. Education's the key for people like me to succeed and go far in life.

But I bet not a lot of you have met people like me? I can only assume that because you all are experiencing the same struggles as I do, only that I face and carry extra burden than the rest of you in comparsion when it comes to jobs, verbal communication and living the life of our dreams. Ironic that I ended up like this in this life, huh? :rolleyes:
Oh no, now whiteness is a disease. (sigh)

Sorry, but no matter how much you study hangul or learn about Korean pottery, you're not ever going to satisfy that void. Being half, I have nearly gone down the same path as you, studying Korean stuff in College as I felt it was the thing I had to do to find my identity. Well that isn't going to tell you anything about who you are. It will only make you angrier, since you might end up knowing more about Korea than most Koreans, but they will still turn you away. Hate to burst your bubble. Then again, most 2nd gen KAs will accept you in my opinion.

I do wish you all the best though.

Oh, and I don't think you have any handicaps at all. Just a void that you need to fill.

tapestrybabe

01-27-2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by silvernova@Jan 24 2003, 04:04 AM
But I bet not a lot of you have met people like me? I can only assume that because you all are experiencing the same struggles as I do, only that I face and carry extra burden than the rest of you in comparsion when it comes to jobs, verbal communication and living the life of our dreams. Ironic that I ended up like this in this life, huh? :rolleyes:
from one korean female adoptee to another korean female adoptee... welcome My Korean Sista to yellowworld:) Believe me, you're not alone when it comes to feeling this sorta 'invisible disability'... there are lots and lots of asian adoptees out there that have shared this common feeling and experience-- including me...

anyways, allow yellowworld help show you the way :)
and btw, i'm from Il Son, and what part of korea are you originally from??

tapestrybabe

01-27-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 27 2003, 04:53 AM
Sorry, but no matter how much you study hangul or learn about Korean pottery, you're not ever going to satisfy that void.
Sorry-- but 2 thumbs down on your statement... sorry to hear that you havent been able to fill that void of yours...

but me, i may only be able to speak the english language... and other asian ppl may not associate with me cuz of the language barrier... but i'm no longer bothered by that...

i may have quit the Korean Student Association club at my school... cuz of the language barrier... everyone spoke korean at the meeting... a language i dont understand... but nope... i dont frown upon them... its not their fault... and its not mine either... our interests just didnt mesh... i've decided to join my asian american club at my school instead... and no matter how the KSA ppl may think of me... i still consider them as my ppl... just as i consider every other asian/asian american-- no matter what language they speak... as my ppl...

i accept being female... and the fact that i can accept and i dont deny my own race and ethnicity... is all that matters to me...

angel nympho

01-27-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 27 2003, 09:44 AM
This question is typically answered the same way by all minorities and differently by American Whites.

Almost all American white women say they are women before they are white.

Everyone else in the world will say they are whatever race or nationality (or both, when the two are the same) they are first.
Why do people even think about this stuff? I am myself. I don't define myself according to any groups. But I guess if I had to think about it, I'm am American above all else. Ethnicity doesn't mean a whole lot to me except that I look different than some people. And that my parents cook different food.

BeTheReds

01-28-2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jan 27 2003, 10:56 PM
Sorry-- but 2 thumbs down on your statement... sorry to hear that you havent been able to fill that void of yours...

but me, i may only be able to speak the english language... and other asian ppl may not associate with me cuz of the language barrier... but i'm no longer bothered by that...

i may have quit the Korean Student Association club at my school... cuz of the language barrier... everyone spoke korean at the meeting... a language i dont understand... but nope... i dont frown upon them... its not their fault... and its not mine either... our interests just didnt mesh... i've decided to join my asian american club at my school instead... and no matter how the KSA ppl may think of me... i still consider them as my ppl... just as i consider every other asian/asian american-- no matter what language they speak... as my ppl...

i accept being female... and the fact that i can accept and i dont deny my own race and ethnicity... is all that matters to me...
Okay so you're saying that for you, the void that used to bother you is irrelevant at this point. That you have come to terms with who you are and that you are not ashamed. But that does not disagree with my statement at all. You still have not filled it, you just don't care about it. Or at least that's what you say.

I used to come to these sites all the time and say how glad I am that I grew up this way, and how wonderful it is that I have finally come to terms with who I am, when in reality, I was aching on the inside, as more identy criseses ripped me apart. I know I still have a void, and that I long for Koreans and Korean Americans to think of me as one of them. Some do, but most don't. It's like I'd have to be famous or something in order for them to claim me. LOL.

Anyway, I was just giving a piece of advice to the girl. I was not trying to discourage her from studying Korean things or trying to meet Korean people, however, in my experience, it only makes you hungrier and angrier.

Do you really consider all Asians/Asian Americans as your people? You don't seperate on national boundaries?
Interesting.

tapestrybabe

01-28-2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 28 2003, 08:26 PM
Okay so you're saying that for you, the void that used to bother you is irrelevant at this point. That you have come to terms with who you are and that you are not ashamed. But that does not disagree with my statement at all. You still have not filled it, you just don't care about it. Or at least that's what you say.

Do you really consider all Asians/Asian Americans as your people?  You don't seperate on national boundaries?
Interesting.
i think my point is...
altho i may not speak the korean language... i'm still racially asian... i am still ethnically korean...
i no longer separate myself with the attitude of THOSE asians over there... i dont disconnect myself from them... and i dont need to learn its language or live its customs in order to be considered a real asian or a real korean... i am what i am... and i cant change that... and yeah,.... while being asian american vs being asian in asia... is different.... RACIALLY, i feel that there's a certain connection there that kinda binds us together... thats how i feel...

BeTheReds

01-28-2003, 07:58 PM

So you are one of those who would argue for pan asian identity then. Which exists to an extent already, but certainly not prevalent enough to make everyone in asia see each other as that same people...

You said you don't disconnect yourself with them, but you did so by leaving KSA... I don't see what you're getting at. Anyway, I agree with you, that by virtue that you are Asian, you are Asian. No one who is not Asian can be Asian. I still don't see why you gave my statement a 2 thumbs down tho, since what you said does not conflict in any way with what I said.

Now, I am not trying to give you a hard time at all so please don't get angry at me..

tapestrybabe

01-28-2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 28 2003, 09:58 PM
So you are one of those who would argue for pan asian identity then. Which exists to an extent already, but certainly not prevalent enough to make everyone in asia see each other as that same people...

You said you don't disconnect yourself with them, but you did so by leaving KSA... I don't see what you're getting at. Anyway, I agree with you, that by virtue that you are Asian, you are Asian. No one who is not Asian can be Asian. I still don't see why you gave my statement a 2 thumbs down tho, since what you said does not conflict in any way with what I said.

Now, I am not trying to give you a hard time at all so please don't get angry at me..
Look,
ppl categorize asians already... FOBS, AA's, ABA's, CBC's... etc... and put me in the AA category... and i dont think my decision for dropping out of the Korean Student Association club-- a FOB group... should reflect disconnecting from them all together... or feeling like i'm straying away from them... or whateverz... i like my choice i made about participating in the Asian American club at my school instead... cuz i can relate to them better.... cuz yeah, english is the language everyone speaks at the meeting...

and i've come to believe... every club has the right to lead their meetings in the manner that they want... The KSA has EVERY RIGHT to conduct their meetings in Korean... even if its held at an all english speaking school... or even if an all english speaking Korean person like me attends, they still have that right... cuz every club has its own personal mission, personal direction, personal way of leading things... etc... and i've come to respect that...

and while i may not attend any of their meetings anymore and participate in any of their social functions... i support them... and respect what they do... i'm still on their mailing list... and i enjoy receiving updates from them... and by virtue that they're an asian club and by virture that they're a korean club... i enjoy knowing that their still active... and Kudos to them for their success... and i feel despite the difference in the language barrier i've had with them at the meetings... and despite the fact that i'm no longer an active member... i'm not totally disconnected from them... cuz i feel that no matter what category an asian my fall under... i still feel that they're still my ppl...

BeTheReds

01-28-2003, 10:52 PM

Okay but would you consider the Chinese Student Association "your people" if they lead the meetings in chinese?

tapestrybabe

01-28-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 29 2003, 12:52 AM
Okay but would you consider the Chinese Student Association "your people" if they lead the meetings in chinese?
They're ASIAN... I'M ASIAN!!! Dont you see the fucking connection?!!!!!
YELLOWWORLD... Its not just a place for Koreans, its not just a place for asian americans... but its FOR ASIANS...

BeTheReds

01-28-2003, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jan 29 2003, 05:56 AM
Their ASIAN... I'M ASIAN!!! Dont you see the fucking connection?!!!!!
YELLOWWORLD... Its not just a place for Koreans... but for ASIANS...
Yes, I see the connection. Please, no need to cuss, I wasn't directing any attacks at you.

I must say tho that this is certainly the first time I have ever heard of a Korean adopted by white parents claiming to be the same people as chinese people.

And Yellowworld is aimed at Asian-Americans more than anyone else, Korean-Americans being a part of that group.

I'm not attacking you or criticizing you at all. I only want to try to understand people who believe in the pan-asian identity a little more.

tapestrybabe

01-28-2003, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 29 2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jan 29 2003, 05:56 AM
Their ASIAN... I'M ASIAN!!! Dont you see the fucking connection?!!!!!
YELLOWWORLD... Its not just a place for Koreans... but for ASIANS...
Yes, I see the connection. Please, no need to cuss, I wasn't directing any attacks at you.

I must say tho that this is certainly the first time I have ever heard of a Korean adopted by white parents claiming to be the same people as chinese people.

And Yellowworld is aimed at Asian-Americans more than anyone else, Korean-Americans being a part of that group.

I'm not attacking you or criticizing you at all. I only want to try to understand people who believe in the pan-asian identity a little more.
I will swear when i wanna express anger or try to get my point across... while aimed at asian americans... i feel this site is also for ASIANS... living in the US or not... and all others are just mere outsiders...

Napoleon Chynamite

01-28-2003, 11:12 PM

I believe in pan-asian identity. But what does that mean really? It's simply a group of people with common background, interests, issues, all or one of those, etc. Pan-asian identity is often seen as synonymous with Asian-American identity (even though it's not, I think) because American society has fostered this as a result of perhaps common struggles with racism, oppression, etc. A Pan-Asian identity in Asia would obviously be much less common or not such a prominent idea. Some people think that a bond formed as a result of struggle is less credible, but to me a bond is a bond. Kinda like how people get closer after going thru shit together. Identity should be all about what you think and not what other people classify you as.

I also believe in Chinese-American identity and Korean-American identity, but also HongKong Chinese identity and so forth. It's not like certain identities automatically restrict you from all others. I could consider all gym enthusiasts or piano enthusiasts my people too. We have a common link or thread. This 'people' thing is overrated IMHO. If you define your 'people' by people with your ethnic blood (which once again is debatable since ethnic blood varies and to me it seems to be more about location and region), then perhaps it's a different story. I am aware of different blood types and the fact that certain blood types are more common in certain peoples than others, but can you even tell the ethnicity or region of someone by looking at one's DNA and blood? I'm not a scientist, but just wondering.......

P.S. I also think that probably the main reason why places like YW (luv u guys! :P ) would tend to cater more towards Asian Americans rather than Asians altogether (besides the issues that many/all AA face in society) is because many of us (including the founders) do not speak Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. well enough and there would be communication problems. i.e. Just by speaking Chinese fluently even, you would not be able to converse well or effectively with other people posting from Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc. Communities (online or not) limit their target audience sometimes for a reason.

BeTheReds

01-28-2003, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jan 29 2003, 06:10 AM
i feel this site is also for ASIANS... living in the US or not... and all others are just mere outsiders...
Okay well I disagree with you there, because I think most Asians who grew up in Asia and don't speak english very well would seriously feel like outsiders too. However I do not disagree that non asians are outsiders.

Anyway, no harm done, I think I must have hit you in a sensitive spot or something, so I'll stop talking about this.

tapestrybabe

01-28-2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 29 2003, 01:17 AM
Okay well I disagree with you there, because I think most Asians who grew up in Asia and don't speak english very well would seriously feel like outsiders too. However I do not disagree that non asians are outsiders.

Anyway, no harm done, I think I must have hit you in a sensitive spot or something, so I'll stop talking about this.
well... asian ppl living in asia... in whom would visit this site... would obviously already understand the english language... and i already believe there are asian ppl on this site... who really dont refer to themselves as having an asian american identity... and this site is for them too... and yes, this site is english based... which would naturally exclude a group of ppl somewhat...

tapestrybabe

01-29-2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Jan 29 2003, 01:12 AM
Identity should be all about what you think and not what other people classify you as.

i agree to this concept to a point... i mean.... i cant say... i think i'm white... therefore i'm white... thats not the way it goes for me... its not a choice for me to think whether i'm asian or korean... thats an aspect of myself i CAN NOT change... and i will never be able to change it, for me its absolute... i am what i am...

and when it comes to identity... i think imo... its more accurate to say.. this site is geared towards ASIANS... and than others asians who participate on this site... can build onto it when it comes to how they identify with being asian...

the goal of yw forum thread... (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?act=ST&f=37&t=5070&s=)

SunWuKong

01-29-2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jan 27 2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jan 27 2003, 09:44 AM
This question is typically answered the same way by all minorities and differently by American Whites.

Almost all American white women say they are women before they are white.

Everyone else in the world will say they are whatever race or nationality (or both, when the two are the same) they are first.
Why do people even think about this stuff? I am myself. I don't define myself according to any groups. But I guess if I had to think about it, I'm am American above all else. Ethnicity doesn't mean a whole lot to me except that I look different than some people. And that my parents cook different food.
isn't the question whether you'd answer asian first or woman first? i mean you can only have one of two answers... i don't understand what you mean.

SunWuKong

01-29-2003, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@Jan 29 2003, 01:12 AM
I believe in pan-asian identity.  But what does that mean really?  It's simply a group of people with common background, interests, issues, all or one of those, etc.  Pan-asian identity is often seen as synonymous with Asian-American identity (even though it's not, I think) because American society has fostered this as a result of perhaps common struggles with racism, oppression, etc.  A Pan-Asian identity in Asia would obviously be much less common or not such a prominent idea.  Some people think that a bond formed as a result of struggle is less credible, but to me a bond is a bond.  Kinda like how people get closer after going thru shit together.  Identity should be all about what you think and not what other people classify you as.

I also believe in Chinese-American identity and Korean-American identity, but also HongKong Chinese identity and so forth.  It's not like certain identities automatically restrict you from all others.  I could consider all gym enthusiasts or piano enthusiasts my people too.  We have a common link or thread.  This 'people' thing is overrated IMHO.  If you define your 'people' by people with your ethnic blood (which once again is debatable since ethnic blood varies and to me it seems to be more about location and region), then perhaps it's a different story.  I am aware of different blood types and the fact that certain blood types are more common in certain peoples than others, but can you even tell the ethnicity or region of someone by looking at one's DNA and blood?  I'm not a scientist, but just wondering.......

P.S. I also think that probably the main reason why places like YW (luv u guys!  :P ) would tend to cater more towards Asian Americans rather than Asians altogether (besides the issues that many/all AA face in society) is because many of us (including the founders) do not speak Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. well enough and there would be communication problems.  i.e. Just by speaking Chinese fluently even, you would not be able to converse well or effectively with other people posting from Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc.  Communities (online or not) limit their target audience sometimes for a reason.
I don't really believe in a pan-Asian identity. I mean... it's just not there. I don't see it at all. I guess you can argue that certain Asian cultures are very similar, but each culture claims these attributes that may be found in other cultures as their own. For example, Japan and Korea identifies certain cultural traits as having historically came from China, but that these traits are their own - which is very different from thinking that these traits are Asian traits or Chinese traits.

There is an Asian American identity, but I feel that it's very thin and it's always in the shadow of simply mainstream American society. A "subculture", if you will, which doesn't make it all that distinctive. The biggest barrier to solidarity amongst Asian Americans is still the language barrier. But almost every group tenaciously hang on to their respective Asian language, because well, language is an integral part of a culture. In essence, solidarity means becoming more Americanised, and giving up important parts of our respective cultural practices.

And lastly, YW caters more towards Asian Americans because, at least in my opinion, there is no doubt that this site caters to Asian Americans. In fact I would argue that the contents in this site would make non-Asian Americans feel more welcomed than Asians in Asia.

tapestrybabe

01-29-2003, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jan 29 2003, 02:27 AM
And lastly, YW caters more towards Asian Americans because, at least in my opinion, there is no doubt that this site caters to Asian Americans.  In fact I would argue that the contents in this site would make non-Asian Americans feel more welcomed than Asians in Asia.
well... i think maybe i kinda got over zealous thinking... this site being for all asians... but i see your perspective... and i'm not gonna argue... (altho the front cover slogan of this site is ASIAN consciousness... -- but i agree with the goal of yw... forum thread found here (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=37&t=5070&st=30))

but anyways to answer the origional question... asian or female first... well, this being an asian site... and being into discussing things that are important to me... like asian identity related issues, culture, and so forth... i would say asian first... but it really all depends on the situation i'm in... i mean, this being a womens forum... just sometimes... i place more emphasis on women issues... than being asian...