White Culture...

[tapestrybabe]

United States society suffers from pandemic racism, racial inequality and racial conflict. Thirty years ago the Kerner commission identified racism as a "white problem." Twenty years before that, Gunnar Myrdal said exactly the same in his landmark sociological study, An American Dilemma. Yet a recent survey of research articles conducted by the Center for the Study of White American Culture looked at articles published between 1963 and 1993 on racial identity, awareness, consciousness and experience. Fewer than 7% of the articles focused on white people. The discrepancy reveals an imbalance in focus, especially since the major portion of the articles were authored by white Americans, and in 1990 white Americans comprised 75% of population of the United States.

People of color understand there is a gap. In the 1994 documentary, The Color of Fear, featuring a frank discussion between nine men of diverse racial backgrounds, Victor, an African American, emphatically tells David, a white American, that white people do not talk about themselves as white people. He says, "What I want to know is what it means to be white. What is the experience? You’re not naming it.," and "Part of being white means never having to admit it means something different from being a person of color." Instead, white Americans pontificate about the experience of other racial groups, and thus engender frustration, distrust and anger among those same groups by failing to acknowledge the impact of their own whiteness.


In 1995 a white American man and an African American woman founded the Center for the Study of White American Culture, Inc. (the Center), now a New Jersey 501(c)(3) corporation (http://www.euroamerican.org/general/fund&board.asp). The Center examines white American culture in the context of the greater American culture. Explicitly a multiracial organization, the Center predicates its work on the founding belief that a complete examination of white American culture must include the perspectives of both insiders and outsiders to that culture. The original Board of Trustees consisted of five persons, including founding members Jeff Hitchcock and Charley Flint.

The Center was created to address the lack of information and discussion of the role of white people and white culture in American society. In some venues this topic was given only marginal consideration. In others, discussion of whiteness seemed to be taboo and any attempts to broach the subject were met with hostility and denial.

Among people who were concerned about the role that white Americans might play in creating a multiracial society, few could find materials, venues and forums for discussion, and supportive organizations to assist in creating a dialogue. Within predominantly white organizations, whiteness still remained an unexamined barrier to developing a multiracial organizational culture. Some grassroots training efforts could be found, and individual scholars and practitioners within various fields were beginning to examine issues of whiteness and white culture. But little of this reached the general public. Even many scholars and practitioners were isolated from one another.

Today some of this is changing. Many people have begun to examine whiteness and white culture, and to ask what it will take for white Americans to live in a society that is multiracial. Though this growing awareness has not been due to the Center alone (far from it), we believe we have played a leadership role. In particular we have fostered the growing awareness and discussion of these issues among a broader public. The very act of our creation was an intentional statement that whiteness can and should be discussed.

This has not happened in a vacuum. The Center maintains a national network of relationships with activists and scholars who share similar concerns, some of whom have gone to considerable length to locate us. An elderly African American minister in California who, reading of our 1996 conference in the Los Angeles Times, made five phone calls, passing from person to person, to locate us and express his support. Of these stories, our network is built.

Just as our society has grown in awareness of whiteness and white culture, the Center, too, has grown as an organization. Though still small and not well-endowed, we have expanded our Board of Trustees (http://www.euroamerican.org/general/fund&board.asp) to nine members, and over time established a reputation and track record in creating awareness and fostering discussion of whiteness. We have quietly worked with some organizations to foster internal discussions of whiteness as a factor in their organizational culture, and how it impacts their work force and their services to their clients.

We proudly continue to raise consciousness on the topic of whiteness, create forums for dialogue, bring scholarly perspectives to the attention of mainstream society, assist organizations with their internal growth toward a multiracial culture, and encourage the development of new perspectives and programs designed to help white Americans participate in building a multiracial society.
http://www.euroamerican.org/general/orgindex.asp

[tapestrybabe]

didnt know where to exactly to post this... i know the article above talks more about ppl of color in general in terms of white culture... but when it comes to the term 'white culture'... i'm a little fuzzy on how to define such a thing... i mean, it was explained in a previous thread here... about the term white culture... http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11065&page=1 (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11065&page=1)

With respect to the reaction to the term "white culture," I wanted to just give a bit of background info on this topic. This paper was written for an audience of psychologists, so when I referred to White culture, I was referring to a set of characteristics that has been highly documented in the literature as comprising the culture of White Americans. Because culture spans traditions, history, values, beliefs, and even social practices, literature on multiculturalism demonstrates that White Americans clearly have different cultural practices than people of color in America....and i would like to believe... that even tho i may have been brought up with white parents, and grew up in mostly white communities... that the values and beliefs that i hold isnt really a part of 'white culture per se'... and i guess when ppl use the statement that i'm white washed... i always believed that it just meant that i'm just really americanized... but now i think i may find it perhaps a little offensive and turned off by it... cuz really... i just dont like the thoughts of my values, belief, etc... as being attached to 'white culture' per se... but their my values and beliefs that i define on my own terms... and not based on a whole different race than my own...

[missmeow]

I don't think their really is a "white culture" anymore than there is an "Asian" culture in the large sense.

I think people use the term white culture as a synonym for American culture. I am sure there are plenty of white Europeans who would be offended at the thought of being grouped under the label "white culture" when the French, German, English, etc cultures are very different (yes, there are similarities, but French people would not consider themselves English culturally any more than Koreans would consider themselves Japanese). I think you were right when you said that you are "Americanized" rather than "white culturitized" (made up a word, haha!)

On the other hand, there are somethings that are specific to white Americans, I mean we all remember that 'you know you're a hillbilly' comic guy right? But I am not so sure that white nuances should necessarily be equated with American culture, perhaps maybe White American culture to be more specific.

I don't think I am explaining myself very well. I will go think about this a little more and then see if I can make more sense...

[Blue dice]

I don't believe American culture is synonymous with being white. By and large most people (minorities included) in the U.S. have co-opted American culture. Many things which make America what it is today were derived from anglo-saxon tradition and the ideology of the framers but various minority cultures have always provided important additions to the foundation. Look at American music as an example, it would have hardly come to be what it is today without minority influences. I'd say the same for American sports, academics, movies, law, and whatever else which were all influenced to a great degree by ethnic contributions from various immigrants.

[nonamerasian]

I don't think their really is a "white culture" anymore than there is an "Asian" culture in the large sense.

I agree. "White culture" is way too broad. "White-American culture" is a more fitting term.

[kimpossible]

I'm glad tapestrybabe posted this because I've been turning over that same phrase and concept in my head since Dr. Baden posted it. I know she's an academic with credentials up the wazoo and an Asian adopted by white parents, but I still don't really understand the reference to white culture. I keep coming back to the notions of societal dominance and mainstream rather than a set of distinct traits that denote culture. That's a toughie to define.

[>:^|]

I keep coming back to the notions of societal dominance and mainstream rather than a set of distinct traits that denote culture. That's a toughie to define.

I tend to agree that it is more the assumption of white privilege and dominance that we are discussing when we are talking about "whiteness." However, could that not be said to be a part of "White culture?" I think culture determines our thought processes. However, we also tend to think of culture as being ethnic-specific. Perhaps that's the problem I have with the term "white culture."

[kimpossible]

Well when I think about the time I've spent with the purely white side of my family and compare it to the not so white side, there are certainly some differences but I'm hard pressed to chalk it up to generic whiteness. Hmm, someone throw some ideas out and I will represent YTs everywhere. Tell me of my culture.

But canning the sarcasm for a sec, I had a really intense and unique class in college. The white Americans in the class weren't allowed to designate themselves as Americans or 'just white,' instead looking back to their ancestry and place within their families and lives to ascertain their identity.

And.. as if I weren't linking enough disparate thoughts together... I replay in my head a scene from Gangs of New York where the 'native' Americans [meaning born Americans] were at war with the Irish in an effort to preserve America for the 'natives.' What a powerful force assimilation has been in the making of the American identity. Or the unmaking of identities depending on how you view it.

[nonamerasian]

"The Components of White Culture: Values and Beliefs" (http://tep.uoregon.edu/workshops/inclusiveclassroom/beingwhite/whiteculture.html)

[rocketbunny]

"White Culture?" It basically sounds like all Americanized European cultures....

This might be a little off topic, but I just think that it's unusual how most people would usually call a Black person an "African American," as if all American Black people descended straight from Africa. They wouldn't usually call a White person a "European American" would they?

[nonamerasian]

"White Culture?" It basically sounds like all Americanized European cultures....

This might be a little off topic, but I just think that it's unusual how most people would usually call a Black person an "African American," as if all American Black people descended straight from Africa. They wouldn't usually call a White person a "European American" would they?

Instead Whites are called Italian American, German American, Irish American...

Or they just chop off the "American" part. "I'm Irish."

Unfortunately, most African Americans don't have the luxury of knowing the countries their fore parents are from. That one reason why continent replaces country of origin--Almost always followed by "American."

[Kuchana]

I don't believe American culture is synonymous with being white. By and large most people (minorities included) in the U.S. have co-opted American culture. Many things which make America what it is today were derived from anglo-saxon tradition and the ideology of the framers but various minority cultures have always provided important additions to the foundation. Look at American music as an example, it would have hardly come to be what it is today without minority influences. I'd say the same for American sports, academics, movies, law, and whatever else which were all influenced to a great degree by ethnic contributions from various immigrants.

But I think too many people believe American culture to be synonoymous with being white.

Plus why is it that some associate with preferances that others may have as to being white in nature? For example I like country music but yet I've been told I'm white because of that? Not only that but some of the phrases I use makes me fall victim to the misconception that I'm white or acting white. What about being just plain ole American?

[Mr.Lum]

But I think too many people believe American culture to be synonoymous with being white.

Plus why is it that some associate with preferances that others may have as to being white in nature? For example I like country music but yet I've been told I'm white because of that? Not only that but some of the phrases I use makes me fall victim to the misconception that I'm white or acting white. What about being just plain ole American?

I think it's nice to think that way, because it is true, but in reality thats just not the way things are. "American" is seen by most people here, and abroad as white. I don't have a problem with that. I don't like the idea of assimilation and this whole "everyone can be American" is stupid because it's not and has not been that way ever. It's just an ideal fed to people so they feel good, but when push comes to shuve and we start breathing air in the real world that's just a nice thought. I think there are universal things that make America what it is, that cross racial lines but I think "American" in the sense of identity is unrealistic. American culture is a mutt culture, like Argentine culture, but when it comes down to it is mostly a white culture and few "Americans" ie the majority play it off as that, there is no African culture involved, no Ameridian culture or non European culture involved. America is white. It's not the only country liek that, Cuba is like that, the Dominican Republic, Argentina, Chile, Australia etc. American is a citizenship for the most part. The American identity is reserved mostly for whites.

[NotAsian]

"The Components of White Culture: Values and Beliefs" (http://tep.uoregon.edu/workshops/inclusiveclassroom/beingwhite/whiteculture.html)

I read that page and thought the points made on it were, variously, either:

1. Hard to attribute to Whites or White-Americans specifically
2. Blatantly obvious
3. Complete balls

There may have been a couple of decent point though.

I suspect it would be a lot more informative and/or insightful if it wasn't so brief.

[Hiroshi2]

"The Components of White Culture: Values and Beliefs" (http://tep.uoregon.edu/workshops/inclusiveclassroom/beingwhite/whiteculture.html)





Hey, that's an interesting link -



The Components of White Culture: Values and Beliefs
Rugged Individualism

Individual is primary unit
Individual has primary responsibility
Independence and autonomy are highly valued and rewarded
Individual can control environment
Competition



Yes, in Asian cultures isn't everything viewed in a more collective way, as opposed to individualism?



Communication

Standard English
Written tradition
Direct eye contact
Limited physical contact
Control emotions




Yes, that actually sounds pretty true too........................at least in my experience. Asians seem to not make eye contact as much, like the Koreans at the store who give you your money w/o looking at you and without placing it in your hand. Also, black people tend to look at you while listening to you, then looking away while they talk to you. White people are the opposite, it seems, looking at you while talking to you, and looking away while listening.



Adherence to rigid time
Time is viewed as a commodity


In the Middle East, time is not viewed as a commodity, but rather as something that's just there, not something to be bought, sold, or owned.



Patriarchal structure



Yes, in certain Native American and African cultures, lineage is traced thru the mother, as opposed to the father, which is the rule in European cultures.


Aesthetics

Music and art based on European cultures
Women's beauty based on blonde, blue-eyed, thin, young
Men's attractiveness based on athletic ability, power, economic status[/quote]


Definitely a white thing, though it seems like every non-white culture on earth (including black, asian, and arab cultures) seem to have bought into the white standard of beauty, asian women who want larger eyes and blond hair, black women who straighten out their hair, etc.


Religion

Belief in Christianity
No tolerance for deviation from single god concept


I don't know about this one. Some white people be on some weird shit. Like not even Buddhism, but just some other-world shit, like Wicca.

[kitty]

Interesting post. I tend to think that the term 'white culture' is very broad, since not all whites around the world share similar cultural traits -- so in a global sense, I think it is too broad a term to use.

However, in the context of America, I think the concept of 'white culture' is absolutely correct -- whites do share a culture of priviledge and dominance in America and is defined by that which is shared amongst all Americans. Since Americans view the de facto average American as a white person who loves apple pie and football, American culture is in many senses a white culture that has since been spread to include members who are not white, but who are buying into a white culture. As face said, the priviledge part is key -- that is what distinguishes white culture primarily from the Others and while a few minority people might be said to feel a part of that culture, their very visible Otherness still excludes them from that white culture in the eyes of the rest of the members of that culture.

For example, deer hunting is largely seen to be a midWestern white passtime -- and yet the Hmong community in Minnesota and Wisconsin enjoy hunting too, since it is something they did back in Laos. Yet, the attitude towards the Hmong hunters are one in which the Others are invading a traditionally *white* pasttime... not because whites are the only ones who have ever hunted deer, but in America, because deer hunting is surrounded by American rules, regulations, and traditions, and because whites are seen as the default average American, one has become associated with the other.

Also... rap, traditionally seen as being made by African Americans for African Americans -- and yet most mainstream hip hop is consumed by almost 70% white buyers, and the trend in hip hop now is to cater music towards white audiences. Does it make rap an aspect of black culture? or white culture?

[kuilong]

I never get tired of plugging this site (http://www.zompist.com/amercult.html).

[draconisz]

Chiming in again.

The first poster references an excellent site. Many in this thread question the existence of a "White" culture. I don't see why anyone would doubt it. Most people here can talk about what it means not to be "White".

Right?

[kpih]

However, in the context of America, I think the concept of 'white culture' is absolutely correct -- whites do share a culture of priviledge and dominance in America and is defined by that which is shared amongst all Americans. Since Americans view the de facto average American as a white person who loves apple pie and football, American culture is in many senses a white culture that has since been spread to include members who are not white, but who are buying into a white culture. As face said, the priviledge part is key -- that is what distinguishes white culture primarily from the Others and while a few minority people might be said to feel a part of that culture, their very visible Otherness still excludes them from that white culture in the eyes of the rest of the members of that culture.



Yep. Sociologically the 'white privilege' and 'whiteness' are effective concepts in analyzing the power dynamics in race. Instead of trying to capture the vague concept of culture, it is more productive to analyze what whiteness represents in various social processes.

The greatest privilege of being white is to be 'normal' (i.e. 'Typical American'). Whiteness is normative, and other colors are presumably deviant. (Again, refer to advertising and social desirability) Whiteness is powerful because it is normative vis-a-vis deviant. It has the power to define what is normative. Minorities are constantly required to prove their affinity to whiteness (a la apply pies and football).

[Hiroshi2]

Yeah see as a minority, you can't help but notice white culture, because you know it's different from your own, whether it be black, latino, asian, etc. culture. So you contrast white culture with your own. So yes there is a "white culture".

[Chu Chi]

I read that page and thought the points made on it were, variously, either:

1. Hard to attribute to Whites or White-Americans specifically
2. Blatantly obvious
3. Complete balls

There may have been a couple of decent point though.

I suspect it would be a lot more informative and/or insightful if it wasn't so brief.


NA, are you a White person?

CC

[kitty]

CC, does it matter? Please stay on topic.

Kitty

[RangerX]

White Culture - What a White person does at the time he/she does it.

Now what does a White Person, or White People Do that no one else does ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kitty]

culture is not defined as 'what a person does at the time he or she does it'. that would be like saying that someone is showing off their culture when they breathe, sleep, or take a shit.

[RangerX]

culture is not defined as 'what a person does at the time he or she does it'. that would be like saying that someone is showing off their culture when they breathe, sleep, or take a shit.

How is Culture defined as ?

By who ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[Chu Chi]

CC, does it matter? Please stay on topic.

Kitty


Yes Kitty,

my question to "Not Asian" is germane to the thread

NA made several points regarding White culture.

Understanding the connection between White people and White culture; It is correct for me to ask if he is a White person.

My question is on topic.

Please allow NA to respond.

Thank you.

CC

[asvenus]

kpih..i agree..this is why i get very suspicious when the term 'white culture' is raised..it is dangerous because it reinforces the idea that there is a unified and monolithic 'white' anything which is a complete fallacy..it denies and ignores the other histories and cultures that directly influenced and moulded these concepts

the article fails to explain anything behind these concepts or why certain societies that are 'racial white' do not adhere to them...Meditteranean peoples, celtic peoples, scandinavian peoples...it is a specific type of culture, not necessarily 'white' but WASP American i would say..

lol @ 'some wicca shit'...

[kitty]

Understanding the connection between White people and White culture; It is correct for me to ask if he is a White person.


It is not relevant to this thread because it seems to assume that NotAsian's opinion is validated or invalidated based upon his ethnicity. NotAsian's race is not the question here, but the question of white culture. You should be able to question or examine NotAsian's postulates without having to resort to underhanded race-bashing or accusatory statements based upon NotAsian's skintone.

If you want to 'understand the connection between white people and white culture', do so. You don't need to know NotAsian's ethnicity to do that. Arguing against NotAsian's arguments by trying to imply that the colour of his skin invalidates his arguments is not only irrelevant, but racist, condescending, and insulting.

it is dangerous because it reinforces the idea that there is a unified and monolithic 'white' anything which is a complete fallacy

However, would you argue that there is not a unifed and monolithic white priviledge?

[RangerX]

Yep. Sociologically the 'white privilege' and 'whiteness' are effective concepts in analyzing the power dynamics in race. Instead of trying to capture the vague concept of culture, it is more productive to analyze what whiteness represents in various social processes.

The greatest privilege of being white is to be 'normal' (i.e. 'Typical American'). Whiteness is normative, and other colors are presumably deviant. (Again, refer to advertising and social desirability) Whiteness is powerful because it is normative vis-a-vis deviant. It has the power to define what is normative. Minorities are constantly required to prove their affinity to whiteness (a la apply pies and football).

kpih,

That sounds like Racism White Supremacy.

As for "White Privilege", it would be interesting to ask a White Person(s) what exactly is White Privilege and What People allow White People to have "White" Privilege.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[Soupy_For.kelly]

here in holland, its all about white culture(offcourse) intergretion is these a matter of "how soon" then "how long"

since a conterversial movie director (theo van gogh) died cause he angered radical muslims by making a movie called submission, the movie was totally unacceptabel but theo van gogh was loved by all dutchies, no matter how hard he provoked, (calling gay: doggylickmates) and muslims(goathfuckers) jews (SSS; stinky sympathy stealers)

the dutchies used to love the multicultural society that lied in holland, but since two important figures of holland died cause of their opinion. they seem to dismantle themselfs from immigrants, they proscuted 26,000 refugees with a PARDON, and forcing foreigners to just drop their culture beliefs and traditions...

[RangerX]

here in holland, its all about white culture(offcourse) intergretion is these a matter of "how soon" then "how long"

since a conterversial movie director (theo van gogh) died cause he angered radical muslims by making a movie called submission, the movie was totally unacceptabel but theo van gogh was loved by all dutchies, no matter how hard he provoked, (calling gay: doggylickmates) and muslims(goathfuckers) jews (SSS; stinky sympathy stealers)

the dutchies used to love the multicultural society that lied in holland, but since two important figures of holland died cause of their opinion. they seem to dismantle themselfs from immigrants, they proscuted 26,000 refugees with a PARDON, and forcing foreigners to just drop their culture beliefs and traditions...

What is White Culture ?

What do White People do that Non-White People do not do ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kitty]

As for "White Privilege", it would be interesting to ask a White Person(s) what exactly is White Privilege and What People allow White People to have "White" Privilege.


That sounds like white apolegism (sp?) to me.

[Chu Chi]

It is not relevant to this thread because it seems to assume that NotAsian's opinion is validated or invalidated based upon his ethnicity. NotAsian's race is not the question here, but the question of white culture. You should be able to question or examine NotAsian's postulates without having to resort to underhanded race-bashing or accusatory statements based upon NotAsian's skintone.

If you want to 'understand the connection between white people and white culture', do so. You don't need to know NotAsian's ethnicity to do that. Arguing against NotAsian's arguments by trying to imply that the colour of his skin invalidates his arguments is not only irrelevant, but racist, condescending, and insulting.





If NA chooses not to respond to my question, that is his or her choice.

But it is correct for a person who wants to know what "white culture" is to ask a white person.

My question is not an insult or a value judgement.

It is not an assumption either.

It is simply a question which NA can answer or not answer.

Please allow "NotAsian" to answer for him or her self.

Thank you.

CC

[kitty]

But it is correct for a person who wants to know what "white culture" is to ask a white person.

So basically, you think that only white people have anything relevant to say about white culture?

[RangerX]

So basically, you think that only white people have anything relevant to say about white culture?

If I want to find out what exactly White Culture is and is not, I suggest asking a White Person(s).

I suspect a White Person(s) would be the most qualified to show and tell what White Culture is and what White Culture is not.

I could be incorrect.

But that is the way I would personally go about finding the information I seek.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[asvenus]

However, would you argue that there is not a unifed and monolithic white priviledge?

true kitty i completely forgot to mention that..i meant as in its irritating when this monolithic 'white' identity is constructed, but yes even though it doesnt exist, the people that fall under the banner certainly reap the rewards of the priveldge it creates/provides

[Chu Chi]

So basically, you think that only white people have anything relevant to say about white culture?


No that is not what I think.

Im saying a person who says they are a white person has a unique perspective on what white culture is.

If I want to know about "gay culture", I could ask many people. But a homosexual has a unique perspective on what "gay culture" is.

CC

[kitty]

If I want to find out what exactly White Culture is and is not, I suggest asking a White Person(s).


Ri-ight... so I, as an Asian American, could have no idea what white culture is, even though I'm inundated with it, day in and day out?

[RangerX]

Ri-ight... so I, as an Asian American, could have no idea what white culture is, even though I'm inundated with it, day in and day out?

I would ask Non-White People too, as to what is and what is not White Culture.

But as Chu Chi stated, I think a White Person would have a unique perspective as to what White Culture is.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kpih]

kpih,

That sounds like Racism White Supremacy.

As for "White Privilege", it would be interesting to ask a White Person(s) what exactly is White Privilege and What People allow White People to have "White" Privilege.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

Nope. 'White privilege' is a concpet that abstracts the racial power dynamics that manifests in daily social processes.

Take for instance, white person walk into a department store, and a black person walk into a department store, which is more 'normal'?

Why is it 'normal'?

Why is it a black person driving/appearing in a predominantly white neighborhood is so threatening and deserves extra scrutiny?

Read the original post, why is 'whiteness' the normative, and other ethnicities the aberration?

Why is that we as a society use terms such as 'a black judge', 'a black president', 'a Latino ceo', 'an Asian senator', 'a black Harvard student'?

'Whiteness' is assumed to be normative in the position of power. It is not necessarily in that extreme position, but also daily experiences.

Why is racial profiling only occur to non-white persons?

Like I said, think about seeing a white person in a department store, and a black person in a department store. Who will be more likely to be monitored by the store?

It is different from 'culture'. It has nothing to do with the symbolic artifacts of any society or group. It points to the position of the white race in relation to other groups. The concept points to a collective and general power relations.

Asking individuals who are underprivileged to describe priviliege is more effective than asking those who enjoy it.

If you are interested I can most certainly direct to the proper literature that discuss the issues of 'whiteness' and 'white privilege'.

[nola]

White Hegemony!

Ah... social theory class all over again.

[dialectic]

Yes, this concept has come up a lot...especially among debates with my students and friends. At the very least, it is stimulating, but at best, futile.

From the perspective of a proud Asian American who is militant against the ethnocracy, I'd like to share with you my personal views (albeit lengthy, thanks for reading):

For me, it doesn't matter who, how, or when the ethnocracy defines themselves as "white". The ethnocracy will always possess privileges which will allow them to "turn on" or off their identities. The burden will more than frequently be on the minorities to prove themselves. What is more of interest to me, is how "whiteness" is "activated" in times of crisis. When times are "stable", multiculturalism is pitched (but nevertheless remains a political euphemism and facade pitched to hide the fact that all intergrationist policies since the Civil Rights era have failed). In times of systemic crisis, multiculturalism defined by white culture appears as a threat in terms of hate crimes.

In times of crisis (e.g. post 9/11), the elites of "white culture" will retract the identities of Asian Americans (and all minorities for that matter), away from them. But this is a historical pattern: our labor threatens the ethnocracy = Chinese exclusion Acts; in WWII, Japanese Americans are incarcerated while the vast majority of Germans and Italians are off the hook (although contrary to popular myth a few hundred German and Italian citizens were detained); labor issues again and Vincent Chin is lumped with the Japanese seizure of American jobs and murdered, etc. Arab Americans are finding out what all our colored brother and sisters, pre-and-post Malcolm X supporters, Chavez supporters, etc., have known all along: you're an "American" (which means the white culture legitimizes us) when things are good, but when things go bad, you're a threat.

What really gets to me is after T. McVeigh and his terrorism against the Murrah building occurred, you didn't see any blonde-haired blue-eyed white person go on TV to say, "I'm an American". Yet after 9/11, ethnic minorities were made to humiliate themselves by going on TV to beg for their identities back, proclaiming "I'm an American" in their fluent and accented English.

Although many people might find that to be an important and healing gesture by all "Americans", I think it once again, represents how "white culture" emerges in its true form during crisis and indirectly/directly shapes a theme which reinforces erroneously how desperate we are to be "Americanized". Blatantlay humiliating to me. We don't have to prove anything to anyone.

Maybe it was healing, I will certainly concede this, but healing to who? Maybe it healed the rift between the distance we already have with "white culture"...it did nothing to solidfy, strengthen, or reinforce our sense of self, our definition of who we are, which I think, must be defined far and distant from anything related to white culture. That's great they have their own world, but so do we.

If, during post 9/11, a producer came up to me in hopes of getting me to appear on TV proselytizing that same "I'm and American" message, I'd tell him to go to hell and f### off. I'd tell that producer that I'm an Asian American and I know that the vast majority of us are descended from a legacy of proud immigrants who came and built this country up and we wouldn't need to seek validation from anyone immersed in white culture. And that if they can't accept us, well, that's fine, 'cuz we walk our own path and live by our own cultural code of conduct.

I will never proclaim to anyone that I'm an "American". I am an Asian American--and if they're enlightened enough to ask me more, then I say I'm Chinese born in Laos, lived in Vietnam, and raised in Thailand b4 coming here to contribute my hard work to these hypocrites, and seeing them put my mother and father down because they couldn't speak English (this was back b4 political correctness emerged in our social lives) who will certainly backstab our asses when the shit hits the fan: they meet me halfway, I'll meet them halfway. Then I'd return the favor and ask, "So do you have Dutch and Irish in you?" Or, "So you have German and Italian huh, cool!" And I'd mean it.

Otherwise, there's nothing I personally need from "white culture"...they offer nothing to me. And I need not offer anything to them. Contrary to those pacificsts and good-natured optimists, I hope our people stays delinked from "white culture".

With Bush in power asking us to stay united, I find solace in staying divided...until someone asks me what it means to be an Asian American, or what Asian American culture is, to my face...then maybe I'll meet them halfway. Indeed, when was the last time someone asked you what it's like to be an Asian American? Not Chinese, or Hmong, but Asian American?...Asian Americans do not exist in their eyes and it's important we make ourselves visible in the coming years, not just in terms of voicing our indignation against corps like Abercrombie and Fitch (kudos and praise to activists here), but in seriously powerful political ways that will set into motion a new era of Civial Rights. Our African American brothers have laid the foundation, and we need to rise to the occassion in ways that are historically unprecdented.

I hope I didn't offend anyone's sensibilities here...it's just that your comments are all so good and I'm an insomniac. Rock on.

"Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood" -- Lu Xun

[nola]

Rock on.3 posts and 520 karma? Rock on, yourself! :smile:

[kitty]

I would ask Non-White People too, as to what is and what is not White Culture.

But as Chu Chi stated, I think a White Person would have a unique perspective as to what White Culture is.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

Granted, but for the purposes of this thread, why would it matter what the ethnicity of a poster is if they have already stated their opinions? After all, an Asian American would have a unique perspective on white culture, too, as would a black American, a gay American, a Native American, a woman, a Canadian, etc... To me, this is all a circular argument -- NA posts his opinion, and then you ask for his ethnicity... if you were genuinely interested in a "unique perspective" from a white person, than you would've asked a white person, then have them state their perspective. Not so; in this case, CC asked afterwards, indicating that to him, NA's ethnicity would change the weight that his opinion bears.

Which is all besides the point that this is completely off topic from this thread. If you have any further issues, please PM me. Let's get back to the topic.

Yes, this concept has come up a lot...especially among debates with my students and friends. At the very least, it is stimulating, but at best, futile.

From the perspective of a proud Asian American who is militant against the ethnocracy, I'd like to share with you my personal views (albeit lengthy, thanks for reading):

For me, it doesn't matter who, how, or when the ethnocracy defines themselves as "white". The ethnocracy will always possess privileges which will allow them to "turn on" or off their identities. The burden will more than frequently be on the minorities to prove themselves. What is more of interest to me, is how "whiteness" is "activated" in times of crisis. When times are "stable", multiculturalism is pitched (but nevertheless remains a political euphemism and facade pitched to hide the fact that all intergrationist policies since the Civil Rights era have failed). In times of systemic crisis, multiculturalism defined by white culture appears as a threat in terms of hate crimes.

In times of crisis (e.g. post 9/11), the elites of "white culture" will retract the identities of Asian Americans (and all minorities for that matter), away from them. But this is a historical pattern: our labor threatens the ethnocracy = Chinese exclusion Acts; in WWII, Japanese Americans are incarcerated while the vast majority of Germans and Italians are off the hook (although contrary to popular myth a few hundred German and Italian citizens were detained); labor issues again and Vincent Chin is lumped with the Japanese seizure of American jobs and murdered, etc. Arab Americans are finding out what all our colored brother and sisters, pre-and-post Malcolm X supporters, Chavez supporters, etc., have known all along: you're an "American" (which means the white culture legitimizes us) when things are good, but when things go bad, you're a threat.

What really gets to me is after T. McVeigh and his terrorism against the Murrah building occurred, you didn't see any blonde-haired blue-eyed white person go on TV to say, "I'm an American". Yet after 9/11, ethnic minorities were made to humiliate themselves by going on TV to beg for their identities back, proclaiming "I'm an American" in their fluent and accented English.

Although many people might find that to be an important and healing gesture by all "Americans", I think it once again, represents how "white culture" emerges in its true form during crisis and indirectly/directly shapes a theme which reinforces erroneously how desperate we are to be "Americanized". Blatantlay humiliating to me. We don't have to prove anything to anyone.

Maybe it was healing, I will certainly concede this, but healing to who? Maybe it healed the rift between the distance we already have with "white culture"...it did nothing to solidfy, strengthen, or reinforce our sense of self, our definition of who we are, which I think, must be defined far and distant from anything related to white culture. That's great they have their own world, but so do we.

If, during post 9/11, a producer came up to me in hopes of getting me to appear on TV proselytizing that same "I'm and American" message, I'd tell him to go to hell and f### off. I'd tell that producer that I'm an Asian American and I know that the vast majority of us are descended from a legacy of proud immigrants who came and built this country up and we wouldn't need to seek validation from anyone immersed in white culture. And that if they can't accept us, well, that's fine, 'cuz we walk our own path and live by our own cultural code of conduct.

I will never proclaim to anyone that I'm an "American". I am an Asian American--and if they're enlightened enough to ask me more, then I say I'm Chinese born in Laos, lived in Vietnam, and raised in Thailand b4 coming here to contribute my hard work to these hypocrites, and seeing them put my mother and father down because they couldn't speak English (this was back b4 political correctness emerged in our social lives) who will certainly backstab our asses when the shit hits the fan: they meet me halfway, I'll meet them halfway. Then I'd return the favor and ask, "So do you have Dutch and Irish in you?" Or, "So you have German and Italian huh, cool!" And I'd mean it.

Otherwise, there's nothing I personally need from "white culture"...they offer nothing to me. And I need not offer anything to them. Contrary to those pacificsts and good-natured optimists, I hope our people stays delinked from "white culture".

With Bush in power asking us to stay united, I find solace in staying divided...until someone asks me what it means to be an Asian American, or what Asian American culture is, to my face...then maybe I'll meet them halfway. Indeed, when was the last time someone asked you what it's like to be an Asian American? Not Chinese, or Hmong, but Asian American?...Asian Americans do not exist in their eyes and it's important we make ourselves visible in the coming years, not just in terms of voicing our indignation against corps like Abercrombie and Fitch (kudos and praise to activists here), but in seriously powerful political ways that will set into motion a new era of Civial Rights. Our African American brothers have laid the foundation, and we need to rise to the occassion in ways that are historically unprecdented.

I hope I didn't offend anyone's sensibilities here...it's just that your comments are all so good and I'm an insomniac. Rock on.

"Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood" -- Lu Xun

Great post! What bothers me is not APIAs who profess your opinion but APIAs who are so deeply ingrained into white culture that they are offended when one tells them that they will never be a part of white culture.

[nola]

Great post.

But. AAs are ambitious. White=power. So AAs want to be white and powerful.

Wrong but understandable.

[Chu Chi]

Great post.

But. AAs are ambitious. White=power. So AAs want to be white and powerful.

Wrong but understandable.

So how do they do that?

If an AA wants to be "white and powerful"; how does the condition "present"?

CC

[kitty]

yes, they want to be white, but not for the power, but to try and avoid being cast as the Other. It's uncomfortable to be constantly reminded that you're different, but for some APIAs, they try to hide within the model minority myth and mistake that for acceptance into white culture, altogether.

[nola]

AAs don't want to be Other because Other is deviant and disempowering. It comes down to wanting to be normative and empowered so it is about power.

[Chu Chi]

yes, they want to be white, but not for the power, but to try and avoid being cast as the Other...


I think someone deleted my last reply to this but Kitty's answer in conjunction with Nola's has allowed me to come to a conclusion.

An AA who wants to be white, only wants to so they can avoid being mistreated on the basis of color; NOT so they can mistreat other people.

I think thats an accurate description of the phenomenon.

CC

[nola]

Definately also to avoid being mistreated on the basis of race. I wonder if and how empowerment and not being mistreated are related.

I'm dense.

[kitty]

An AA who wants to be white, only wants to so they can avoid being mistreated on the basis of color; NOT so they can mistreat other people.


Do you have any *reason* to say that? Can you back that up with ... ANY argument?

I ask only because an APIA friend of mine... and I use APIA loosely... has ... assimilated herself to the best of her own abilities with white culture. She recently told me racism does not exist and no one actually sees her as Chinese... other than those paranoid race-baiters like myself. But... she has also, in the same breath, spouted all kinds of racist bullshit towards other people of colour -- such as that all blacks are mysoginistic, drug-pushing, ho-fucking troglodytes with dicks the size of sycamore trees.

And let's not get started with my parents...

[Chu Chi]

Do you have any *reason* to say that? Can you back that up with ... ANY argument?

I ask only because an APIA friend of mine... and I use APIA loosely... has ... assimilated herself to the best of her own abilities with white culture. She recently told me racism does not exist and no one actually sees her as Chinese... other than those paranoid race-baiters like myself. But... she has also, in the same breath, spouted all kinds of racist bullshit towards other people of colour -- such as that all blacks are mysoginistic, drug-pushing, ho-fucking troglodytes with dicks the size of sycamore trees.

And let's not get started with my parents...

Hmmm, you've got me on this one because I think you have better evidence; it appears you have met one of these people of whence we speak. I on the other hand am only using some crude logic.

For the moment let me withdraw my previous conclusion while I try to simplify the dynamics for clarity.

CC

[RangerX]

Nope. 'White privilege' is a concpet that abstracts the racial power dynamics that manifests in daily social processes.

Take for instance, white person walk into a department store, and a black person walk into a department store, which is more 'normal'?

Why is it 'normal'?

Why is it a black person driving/appearing in a predominantly white neighborhood is so threatening and deserves extra scrutiny?

Read the original post, why is 'whiteness' the normative, and other ethnicities the aberration?

Why is that we as a society use terms such as 'a black judge', 'a black president', 'a Latino ceo', 'an Asian senator', 'a black Harvard student'?

'Whiteness' is assumed to be normative in the position of power. It is not necessarily in that extreme position, but also daily experiences.

Why is racial profiling only occur to non-white persons?

Like I said, think about seeing a white person in a department store, and a black person in a department store. Who will be more likely to be monitored by the store?

It is different from 'culture'. It has nothing to do with the symbolic artifacts of any society or group. It points to the position of the white race in relation to other groups. The concept points to a collective and general power relations.

Asking individuals who are underprivileged to describe priviliege is more effective than asking those who enjoy it.

If you are interested I can most certainly direct to the proper literature that discuss the issues of 'whiteness' and 'white privilege'.

If I want to find out about White Culture - Things White People Say and Do at the time they are Doing it,

I would ultimately end up having to ask White People themselves.

What is White Culture ?

What do you say and do as a White Person that no one else does ? (hence, White Culture)

Note that I will still ask Non-White People too as to what they suspect White Culture is and is not.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kitty]

Note that I will still ask Non-White People too as to what they suspect White Culture is and is not.


... you just don't think that what they have to say is as important?

Forgive me for being snippy, but frankly, I don't see how this post does anything but re-state the topic of this thread. And culture is not defined as 'what people are doing and saying at the time they are doing it'...

Dictionary.com defines culture as:

1.The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

2. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.

3. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.

4. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.

I don't see 'what people are doing when they do it' listed anywhere, nor anything that even vaguely resembles that phrase.

[Chu Chi]

Thanx for the definitions kitty. I don't see the "phrase either.

But what I do see are 4 good reasons why a White person would know what white culture is,

why a gay person would know what gay culture is

why an alcoholic would know what alcoholic culture is

why a republican would know what republican culture is...

You as a non white person may know what a white person is to a non white person.

But only a white person knows what a white person is to another white person.

CC

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Thanx for the definitions kitty. I don't see the "phrase either.

But what I do see are 4 good reasons why a White person would know what white culture is,

why a gay person would know what gay culture is

why an alcoholic would know what alcoholic culture is

why a republican would know what republican culture is...

You as a non white person may know what a white person is to a non white person.

But only a white person knows what a white person is to another white person.

CC

What? :confused:

[Chu Chi]

Look at it this way,

If you spent a year in Iraq as a marine infantry man, you would get pretty good at determining who the "insurgents" are.

What an "insurgent" says

What an insurgent does

What kind of bombs they like to use

How they greet each other...


But the best way to find out who the "insurgents" are is to have a person who is one, tell you who they are.

I suspect this is what is going on at Guantonamo bay as we speak.


CC

[Napoleon Chynamite]

But the best way to find out who the "insurgents" are is to have a person who is one, tell you who they are.

Thanks for the tip~

[asvenus]

Look at it this way,

If you spent a year in Iraq as a marine infantry man, you would get pretty good at determining who the "insurgents" are.

What an "insurgent" says

What an insurgent does

What kind of bombs they like to use

How they greet each other...


But the best way to find out who the "insurgents" are is to have a person who is one, tell you who they are.

I suspect this is what is going on at Guantonamo bay as we speak.


CC

oh no CC, thats really easy...all it is, is that they dont have uniforms and therefore are insurgents, i mean if they were 'real' ['i]combatants[/i] they'd have uniforms and it would be allowed you see...no, no neither do i :confused:

[nameless]

If I want to find out about White Culture - Things White People Say and Do at the time they are Doing it,

I would ultimately end up having to ask White People themselves.

Do you not have eyes?

The culture we are discussing is not based on conscious behavior. Both whites and non-whites can and will come to the same conclusions about white culture (racial majority behavior) as long as they are introspective and/or objective observers of society.

[RangerX]

... you just don't think that what they have to say is as important?

Forgive me for being snippy, but frankly, I don't see how this post does anything but re-state the topic of this thread. And culture is not defined as 'what people are doing and saying at the time they are doing it'...

Dictionary.com defines culture as:

1.The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

2. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.

3. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.

4. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.

I don't see 'what people are doing when they do it' listed anywhere, nor anything that even vaguely resembles that phrase.

Interesting set of definitions.

I see words such as "patterns", "traits", "attitudes", "behavior", and "beliefs" stated several times.

What would you have to observe (in a Person) in order to determine that person's patterns/traits/attitudes/behavior/beliefs ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[Faithless]

"The Components of White Culture: Values and Beliefs" (http://tep.uoregon.edu/workshops/inclusiveclassroom/beingwhite/whiteculture.html)
Found this linked on st0rrnfr0nt http://www.white-history.com/

And from some poster on SF, itself:
On the whole, white culture draws entirely upon the heritage of Western Civilization. But in the American context, white culture refers to the civilization built in America by whites. The FOUNDING CULTURE in America (the culture of the original colonists) was all white, and all Protestant. It's these Protestants, almost all Anglo-Saxon or Dutch or German, who created every single institution upon which our current government is based.

[Chu Chi]

Interesting set of definitions.

I see words such as "patterns", "traits", "attitudes", "behavior", and "beliefs" stated several times.

What would you have to observe (in a Person) in order to determine that person's patterns/traits/attitudes/behavior/beliefs ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ


Oh thats easy: What they DO.

In addition, Ive got another observation which should "shut the back door" on the definition of white culture;

White people DECIDE what white people do.

You can't get more "expert" than that.

CC

[kitty]

On the whole, white culture draws entirely upon the heritage of Western Civilization. But in the American context, white culture refers to the civilization built in America by whites. The FOUNDING CULTURE in America (the culture of the original colonists) was all white, and all Protestant. It's these Protestants, almost all Anglo-Saxon or Dutch or German, who created every single institution upon which our current government is based.

The guy from SF is right, in a sense. White people originally imagined America to be a white society, built upon the backs of whites as a worker's paradise.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Oh thats easy: What they DO.

In addition, Ive got another observation which should "shut the back door" on the definition of white culture;

White people DECIDE what white people do.

You can't get more "expert" than that.

CC

I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding what you're trying to say. Each time I read your posts, I feel like I'm watching a Matrix movie where I need to fill in all the holes after something is said which supposedly implies ten different other things. :confused: ~~

[Chu Chi]

I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding what you're trying to say. Each time I read your posts, I feel like I'm watching a Matrix movie where I need to fill in all the holes after something is said which supposedly implies ten different other things. :confused: ~~

Im sorry, its not my intent to confuse you or anyone.

Since Im not allowed to ask questions anymore under threat of banishment; you'll hafta ask me what you want me to clarify and let me make a statement instead.

I know its laborious, but I must do the hard work because the oracle told me it would be an uphill battle.

This is about choice.

CC

[nola]

I know its laborious, but I must do the hard work because the oracle told me it would be an uphill battle.I am woman of color, hear me roar. Fighting racism is an uphill battle, but your laboriousness is making it harder for you and all of us.

[Chu Chi]

You cannot force a person to do their best.

The best you can do is to do your best.

CC

[Napoleon Chynamite]

You cannot force a person to do their best.

The best you can do is to do your best.

CC

Are you sure you aren't Mr. Miyagi in disguise?

[Chu Chi]

Are you sure you aren't Mr. Miyagi in disguise?

I don't know who "Mr. Miyagi" is Gumby, I would like to find out, but Im not allowed to ask questions. Asking questions is part of Chu Chi culture.

I still do it, just not here.

CC

[asvenus]

if anyones is serious about looking into this there are some really good (White) authors who critically analyse the construct of 'Whiteness' and White culture in general and how it reinforces racist structures and dualistic notions of superiority/inferiority...
my fave is John Gabriel....Theodore Allen is also v. good...

[Mavurik]

White cultures... it's hard to pinpoint. But then again, so are many other cultures nowadays. It's a good thing. It means people are being integrated into other cultures. Can you honestly say there is only one Chinese culture? Or one African culture? One Japanese culture? Maybe once upon a time you could, but nowadays nope. Yes.


Progress.

[Chu Chi]

if anyones is serious about looking into this there are some really good (White) authors who critically analyse the construct of 'Whiteness' and White culture in general and how it reinforces racist structures and dualistic notions of superiority/inferiority...
my fave is John Gabriel....Theodore Allen is also v. good...

Beware of white people peddling "whiteness" when racism is the problem.

"whiteness" is a term for confusion because it lacks a definition.

Once you take the bait and start discussing "whiteness", you better pack a lunch because "Kansas is about to go bye bye"


http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=20604&highlight=Whiteness

CC

[asvenus]

^^now im just confused... :confused:
i think its good thing that the concept of 'whiteness' is being scrutinised and brought from under the radar...whiteness and people are so used to being the definers and the standard to which we all scrap and aspire to that by analysing it, (particularly when done by white people who are genuine in their desire to create a better society are willing to attack their own culture(s) we demystify it and are able to deconstruct it and move on...by focusing on 'our' own cultures (basically cultures of the 'other' the non white people) all we do is allow ourselves to remain in this ridiculous cycle of oppression while whiteness remains untainted hovering above watching us all...

(john gabriel is my old lecturer and he is amazing so i dont think he would be 'peddling' anything bad)...

[Chu Chi]

If we are going to discuss "whiteness", we first need a definition.

So far it appears no one is willing and/or able to provide one.

If I had one I would provide it.

What we need is a white person to provide a definition of "whiteness".

I suspect we will not get one.

But I could be incorrect.

CC

[draconisz]

Yeah see as a minority, you can't help but notice white culture, because you know it's different from your own, whether it be black, latino, asian, etc. culture. So you contrast white culture with your own. So yes there is a "white culture".

I would agree and then add that there are many "Whites" who have it clear in their heads. . .who or what is not "White".

[SunWuKong]

If we are going to discuss "whiteness", we first need a definition.

So far it appears no one is willing and/or able to provide one.

If I had one I would provide it.

What we need is a white person to provide a definition of "whiteness".

I suspect we will not get one.

But I could be incorrect.

CC

[Jeff Goldblum imitation]
what... is the essense... of "whiteness"... when there is only white people to witness it?
[/Jeff Goldblum imitation]

[deez nuts]

[Jeff Goldblum imitation]
what... is the essense... of "whiteness"... when there is only white people to witness it?
[/Jeff Goldblum imitation]

can we bottle this essence of "whiteness," name it eu de whitey and sell it?

[SunWuKong]

can we bottle this essence of "whiteness," name it eu de whitey and sell it?

ooh i could use some of that for like when i go on a job interview. i'll bet we can sell a small bottle for at least $50.

"l'eau de le whitey. come on, put it on."
we can even get Steven Segal to be our spokesman.

[deez nuts]

ooh i could use some of that for like when i go on a job interview. i'll bet we can sell a small bottle for at least $50.

"l'eau de le whitey. come on, put it on."
we can even get Steven Segal to be our spokesman.

let's do it.

look out stetson man. here comes whitey man.

[Chu Chi]

6 pages and still no definition of White culture.

CC

[hooligan]

6 pages and still no definition of White culture.

CC
After this post, I'm going to go back and read the thread.

White culture is the dominant culture. The in-your-face constant barrage you see in this nation. Yes, assimilation has done somethings to the dominant culture, such as making take-out synonomous with Chinese food, as well as fortune cookies. White culture is everything that isn't subversive. Oftentimes, everything you get from any major news source has this bias.

Defining APIA culture or even defining your family's culture (if you're APIA, or even any person of color) is not defining white culture. White culture is everything we are not, even though sometimes we become it. I believe it's easier to define what white culture is not than what it is because the dominant culture often takes on aspects of a culture that it admires, likes or exploits. Such as "Queer Eye for a Straight Guy" or Amy Tan. Aspects of culture become the dominant culture, but our cultures never completely become "white".

I think this argument lies in the construction of the "familiar" in contrast to the "other". White culture is everything that is "familiar", your TV stations, your MTV, domestic beers, and popular sports. THe other is everything that "white" culture isn't. Soccer, foreign beers, and counter culture media. In defining white culture, we're really defining our culture by reinforcing the other (in ourselves) and drawing what is the familiar (in white culture).

i might add, this is purely spoken as an Asian American, speaking in context of all the privelege that this definition may or may not afford me.

[RangerX]

I suspect the following may be part of "White Culture"

-Deciding who is White and who is Non-White ("Colored")

-Deciding who Functions as White and who Functions as Non-White ("Colored")

-Being able to practice Racism White Supremacy (mistreat Non-White People on the basis of Color)

Now I could be incorrect, I am a Non-White Person, it may be best to ask a White Person what he/she, as a White Person, Says and Does on a regular basis.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kitty]

6 pages and still no definition of White culture.

CC

how insulting to those of us who actually took the time to post our thoughts on the subject: myself, mavurik, and a few others who posted in great detail.

why is it I get the sense that you're not looking for people's thoughts, you're looking for someone to validate your thoughts?

And SWK, put me down on backorder for some of that eau de white. You know, in case of Bad Race Day, break glass.


Now I could be incorrect, I am a Non-White Person, it may be best to ask a White Person what he/she, as a White Person, Says and Does on a regular basis.


I'll glady not need a white person to tell me how to think, thank you. If you dislike racism and oppression, it might do you well to not need to look to the white mainstream to help you define things you're perfectly capable of defining for yourself.

[Chu Chi]

After this post, I'm going to go back and read the thread.

White culture is the dominant culture...


Hmmmm... that means White people are the dominant people.

CC

[Balthus Dire]

well, white people are the most accepted people I'd surmise!! Go to any corner of the globe you can find white people there--I'd hesitate to consider them the "dominate people", though. In the middle-east, however,they're "putting heads to bed" on that theory!

[Chu Chi]

When you are dominant, you don't have to be "accepted", thats what makes you dominant.



CC

[RangerX]

When you are dominant, you don't have to be "accepted", thats what makes you dominant.



CC

I suspect you are correct.

A dominant people do not have to ask, beg, or hope for other people's "acceptence", a dominant people just dominates those other people.

"Accepted" or not.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[achtungbaby]

When you are dominant, you don't have to be "accepted", thats what makes you dominant.
Being accepted is what makes you dominant? Or are we dominant because we are...accepted?!?

Please excuse my impatience Chu Chi, but as I've said to you before -- what's your point?

A dominant people do not have to ask, beg, or hope for other people's "acceptence", a dominant people just dominates those other people.
Obviously white folk aren't dominant then. They've been apologizing to everyone for the past half-century! You wanna talk apologetic, check out some stubborn yellow people -- they're governments won't even acknowledge certain parts of history!

Much can be learned from them.

[RangerX]

Being accepted is what makes you dominant? Or are we dominant because we are...accepted?!?

Please excuse my impatience Chu Chi, but as I've said to you before -- what's your point?


Obviously white folk aren't dominant then. They've been apologizing to everyone for the past half-century! You wanna talk apologetic, check out some stubborn yellow people -- they're governments won't even acknowledge certain parts of history!

Much can be learned from them.

White People do not need Non-White People's acceptence or non-acceptence...

for what purpose would that be anyway ?

They are Dominant,

"accepted" or not.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[Chu Chi]

Please excuse my impatience Chu Chi, but as I've said to you before -- what's your point?




Sorry, I'll try to speed it up but it takes longer when you aren't allowed to ask questions.


Im just trying to find out what "White Culture" is and whether it is related to this:

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=597265&host=3&dir=65

As you will see, the best way to reveal truth is to ask questions.

Questions so simple a four year old can understand them.

CC

[Emperor_Mike]

White People do not need Non-White People's acceptence or non-acceptence...

for what purpose would that be anyway ?

They are Dominant,

"accepted" or not.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

"Dominant" in what manner? In history? No arguing with that, as Western power culminated in the 19th Century when vast portions of the globe fell under European rule. European rule in the 19th Century did not result from the inferiority of the races they subjugated, it was due to technological supremacy. In modern society? I don't see how that's possible in an increasingly interconnected global community where multi-culturalism has become one of many hallmarks of social progress. One may speak of political, military or economic dominance, but very few will resort to using 19th century and pre-18th century theories that attempt to correlate race with competence to prove a point. Give an example in support of such antiquated racist views and two or more will appear to disprove it.

Supporters of doctrines pertaining to the supposed supremacy of any single race are blind to the social and economic realities of the modern world. The polygenesis theories propounded by people like Charles White ("An Account of the Regular Gradation of Man" - 1799) and Samuel Morton no longer hold water. It certainly goes without saying that anyone who still follows white supremacism of the kind peddled by 19th century racist writers like Joseph Arthur Comte de Gabineau and Houston Stuart Chamberlain is in need of a crash course in modern social attitudes.

At the end of the day there's no such thing as a "surpreme race." White, Black, Yellow, everyone is equal. Ability and success in any given endeavour is dictated not by race, but by motivation, desire, and a plethora of material circumstances.

Sorry, I'll try to speed it up but it takes longer when you aren't allowed to ask questions.


Im just trying to find out what "White Culture" is and whether it is related to this:

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=597265&host=3&dir=65

As you will see, the best way to reveal truth is to ask questions.

Questions so simple a four year old can understand them.

CC

Interesting article. While it does show a disturbing trend of sorts, I'm not convinced that recognition alone is any sign of social "dominance" if that is what you're trying to get at. Moreover, this was a localised study done in Britain where, as Lord Winston so aptly pointed out, multi-culturalism doesn't get as much exposure as say, in North America. Perhaps the same study should be done in the United States or Canada before any type of conclusion can be drawn.