Violent Games and Vice City

[kitty]

Recently, GTA:Vice City has been lambasted for having the words 'Kill Haitians' in it, and it supposedly triggered a shooting spree by some kids who claimed they were mimicking the game.

Do you guys think that there's some truth that video games promote wonton violence? Should something be done?

[TB4000]

If you're at a point where a fictional game is dictating how you act in real life, you're a pretty weak minded individual. Granted, I thought it was cool back in the day when Sub-Zero ripped out someone's spine, but I never wanted to actually do it.

[himura-dono]

i'm sorry, if i'm sick in the head and i go out and kill people, i'm not gonna try and blame a videogame to lighten my sentence for my own morbid curiosity in killing people.

[Emperor_Mike]

I prefer strategy oriented games where I can fight wars that kill droves of people instead of just focussing on a handful of individuals. This one game of mine allows me to create my own battles and the engagements would be massive with a casualty list numbering in the tens of thousands. Haha!

No, I'm kidding. I don't enjoy killing lots of people, even if they are digital humans.

[kitty]

mmm... i get pretty sadistic with my sims.

[ism]

Do you guys think that there's some truth that video games promote wonton violence? Should something be done?

A game with wonton violence would be cool. Chopstick death! (I think you wanted "wanton.")

I think games can influence people by giving them ideas, but intent cannot be generated that way. This is one of those cases where litagation can solve the problem one way or another.

[TTChino]

I think people that kill people cuz of video games, would've killed people anyway.

[ellsworth81]

it's actually the other way around.
if i did *not* have vid games, i would kill ppl.
j/k

games don't kill people. people kill people.

and like penny-arcade said, switch the game rating system to the movie rating system. then parents can't pretend to be ignorant. of course entertainment media encourages violence. but it doesnt encourage ppl to ignore morals.

parents. psh.

[Martinkou]

I was exposed to Wolf3D and Doom at a very young age, and I turned out fine. (hmmm......) - Games don't kill people (although there are some exceptions), but those who let the game take control of their lives are the ones to blame for.

[kitty]

A game with wonton violence would be cool. Chopstick death! (I think you wanted "wanton.")



Bah. I needed a break. Maintaining the perfection that is me is hard work, you know.

:p

[Fireblade]

People like to lay blame on certain things. And with the power of association, they believe the cause is because of something maybe perhaps a game that person played with millions of years ago. I mean, if I killed someone NOW, and they said "oh, it's cuz this kid played Doom when he was 14" that'd be total bullshit.

I swear... one day someone is gonna associate a serial killer with Teletubbies, and then we can all say those evil sadistic bastard children of the equally evil Barney the Dinosaur, then we can all breath easier and say "THAT WAS THE CAUSE!"

No one's going to say what Chris Rock said. "Whatever happened to CRAZY?"

[ism]

From an interview with Dustin Lynch, a 15 year-old boy, who murdered a 17 year-old girl. He was described as "a quiet boy who often played Grand Theft Auto III." Some people have implicated the game in the murder.

I killed JoLynn for my own personal satisfaction.

[...] I don't regret what I did and I never will. I did her a favor and satisfied all my needs while doing it! This GTA III stuff kills me though! What a crock of holy shit!


full article (http://clevescene.com/issues/2003-12-10/feature2.html/1/index.html)

[teaz0r]

i don't like uber graphic violent games.
i remember in college, this boy kept
on playing this game on the computer...
like he ran around shooting people and
animals...

and like when he shot something... it'd
ooze blood.

i dunno. it bothered me.

[ren28]

i don't like uber graphic violent games.
i remember in college, this boy kept
on playing this game on the computer...
like he ran around shooting people and
animals...

and like when he shot something... it'd
ooze blood.

i dunno. it bothered me.

You probably saw the guy play "Postal" or "Postal^2." It was really violent. Personally I don't think these games should have any effect on a "normal" individual but there are certain people that are just STUPID and it may have an effect on them. Regardless of that, these STUPID people would be violent anyway so games are just used as a scapegoat, IMO.

[ren28]

Oh yeah. I also think that any kid that family life should be looked at if a kid takes a game to heart and does violence. I see more and more DUMB kids these days thinking their sh*t does not smell. It's a basic breakdown of values stemming from two working parents or a single parent home (or crappy parenting in general).

[ism]

Haitian organizations, led by the Haitian-American Coalition of Palm Beach County, have sued for a ban on "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City."

In the game, the player is asked to "kill the Haitians," awarding points for each kill. Rockstar Games has pledged to remove the line from future versions.

The Coalition has also asked for $15,000 in damages. The suit names Rockstar Games, its parent company Take-Two Interactive Software Inc., Sony Computer Entertainment, the Microsoft Corp., and retailers Target, Wal-Mart and Best Buy.

Earlier this month, about 100 Haitian-Americans demonstrated outside a Wal-Mart Supercenter in nearby Boynton Beach chanting, "Stop Vice City."

full CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/01/01/videogame.suit.ap/index.html)

Video games have usually been treated like any other media by the courts, protected by the First Amendment. There are, however, limits to Free Speech; is the hate crime argument valid here?

[TB4000]

It's kinda iffy....in all honesty, Haitians do have that reputation for being thugged out, though that's no excuse for the line in the game. I'd be a little pissed if I heard the line made about my people in that manner, but the game is rated M also. Don't really know what to think about this one.

[nonamerasian]

My first thought when I heard about it was that Haitians are one West Indian group that isn't usually reputed as thugs.

Either way, I have no clue what to think about the game.

[ren28]

There did not seem to be any claims of racial tension against them. That tends to make me think their lawsuit is frivolous.

Anyone dumb enough to take a game seriously should not be playing the game. Parents should not buy their dumb kids these sorts of games if they think it might cause trouble.

[mr. x]

i do see where the Haitians are coming from, i just brushed it off when i played it as something to do with the 80's. it could be construed as a race thing i spose tho id hate to see Rockstar get jacked for it

[Blue dice]

GTA3 and the subsequent Vice City were full of these kinds of stereotypes though. What about the asian triad guys driving around in fish trucks or the asian restaraunts being crime settings? It's hardly just a Haitian thing but they are the people to call attention to it.

I think it's all done tongue in cheek though. It's hard to get mad when you see the outrageous plotline or hear the dialogue.

[etcj]

Well I don't necessarily think monetary damages is the best way to handle litigations. If anything, a public apology and an admission from the game makers may be enough. I don't expect a fine would teach game makers to be more PC about their plotlines and game scenarios.

[ellsworth81]

another dumbass taking potshots at a loss cause that falls upon deaf ears. I already emailed them a response to this travesty of an article.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm

[kitty]

merged two threads on Vice City.

[Hanuman]

This reminds me of the craze not too long ago about cartoons being too violent for kids. Then you look at the old cartoons and they weren't exactly violence free either - Popeye and Brutus used to really have a go at it. Woody Woodpecker used to beat the tar out of his protagonists. Tom and Jerry was violent enough that in some episodes Tom (or Jerry) would get real lumps and bruises and sometimes died!

Remember years ago when they blamed D&D for being too violent and for fostering violence amoung kids that played? It's such hogwash, if you really want to blame someone, blame the parents who leave their kids at home all day unsupervised with no instruction and the TV as the only babysitter.

[etcj]

Well I think it goes to show you that animators and game producers know what they are doing when they makes these games. In games like Vice City and Streets in LA, the portrayal of race is very intentional, or why else would they choose non-white characters to be animated? Furthermore, many games will rarely incorporate non-white faces unless they are based on some relevance to the character's background. So in American-produced games, you will more likely than not find white protagonists facing off with any other adversary of any other race. Meanwhile, if you look at games from Japan, there is a greater sense of inclusion on the part of casting the protagonist's race. I guess you can consider it a bias or something.

The earliest game that I remember to include non-white characters extensively would be Street Fighter. Sad, isn't it? Don't forget, that game is from Japan. Hmm...I honestly can't remember any non-white characters from games made by an American producers from that era though...

[VV o n g B a]

another dumbass taking potshots at a loss cause that falls upon deaf ears. I already emailed them a response to this travesty of an article.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm
the best line from the article is: This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy - or than any lie the feds think Martha Stewart ever told them, or any line in any song that Bruce Springsteen ever sang that rankled a cop in the Meadowlands.

[Faithless]

The trade off with violent video games:

* They might make you more jaded and numb towards violence.

* Video Games Sharpen Minds, Study Finds (http://www.wpxi.com/family/2233466/detail.html)
A new study published in this week's issue of the journal Nature suggests action-packed video games such as "Grand Theft Auto III," "Counter-Strike" and "Spiderman" may sharpen your mind.

Researchers at the University of Rochester in New York studied young adults who played video games full of high-speed car chases and blazing gunbattles several times a week for at least six months.

They found that the video game players showed better visual skills than young adults who didn't play the games. For example, they kept better track of objects appearing simultaneously and processed fast-changing visual information more efficiently.

[stunninglyAsian]

mmm... i get pretty sadistic with my sims.

I put two of my sims into a large room and locked them in by removing the doors. They began to get antsy so I put in TVs, stereos, pool tables, a couch. Which worked for awhile. Then they got hungry and started to fight. Then one ripped out the other guy's heart and said, "Kill Haitians!" Oh... wait a second, that was my fragile little brain being warped by these horrible games! Ahhhh!

[kitty]

Having now played Vice City -- I'm a little 'ehhhh' on this article. The mission I played was 'Cannon Fodder', but it was no different than the mission where you have to kill a certain number of Triad members in a certain amount of time in GTA:3. Does it make it alright? no.

But I do think that if they are serious, they should've networked with other ethnic groups that are also affected by the game line.

[TB4000]

Having now played Vice City -- I'm a little 'ehhhh' on this article. The mission I played was 'Cannon Fodder', but it was no different than the mission where you have to kill a certain number of Triad members in a certain amount of time in GTA:3. Does it make it alright? no.

But I do think that if they are serious, they should've networked with other ethnic groups that are also affected by the game line.
You just recently played Vice City? I thought you had the game for a while. I guess they could go with the Haitians, Triads, Irish Mafia, and so forth and so on. That way each background's underworld-type guys are represented.

[kitty]

i just started it. we bought it last year, but i had this anal idea that we had to beat GTA:III first. But we haven't...

[mr. x]

i just started it. we bought it last year, but i had this anal idea that we had to beat GTA:III first. But we haven't...

id definetely play GTA 3 first tho, Vice city has inside jokes from that not to mention VC has more features so if u played GTA3 later u would feel like its a step down (cuz u can do so much more in VC)

[kitty]

i'm like 80% through GTA:III... I hope I would get most of the jokes?

i like how in vice city you can buy the buildings. I've already bought like three apartments!! I wanna buy the strip joint. damnit.

[mr. x]

i'm like 80% through GTA:III... I hope I would get most of the jokes?

i like how in vice city you can buy the buildings. I've already bought like three apartments!! I wanna buy the strip joint. damnit.

buy the strip joint last, its got the least perks (i mean yeah you can get a lapdance but she dont take it off). i think u might make money from it but yeah, buy other stuff first. yeah go on ahead the inside jokes are just like the radio jockeys and some characters u meet are from GTA 3 (donald love)

[kitty]

buy the strip joint last, its got the least perks (i mean yeah you can get a lapdance but she dont take it off). i think u might make money from it but yeah, buy other stuff first. yeah go on ahead the inside jokes are just like the radio jockeys and some characters u meet are from GTA 3 (donald love)

oh, ok :)
but i was so excited about the strip joint!!

thx though... i'm not at the point where i can buy anything but apartments, but I'm really looking forward to being able to rule vice city with an iron fist!!

[mr. x]

oh, ok :)
but i was so excited about the strip joint!!

thx though... i'm not at the point where i can buy anything but apartments, but I'm really looking forward to being able to rule vice city with an iron fist!!

hehe well there is ONE more perk to the strip joint and it is that u can rampage and kill everyone in there (yeah pretty sick) and one of the women has a dagger which u cant obtain through other means (like buying it). s'alright weapon, like the machete its just a novelty i guess.

should first buy the places with garages. theres one on the left island that has garages AND a heli-pad on the roof thats pretty sweet.

[TB4000]

hehe well there is ONE more perk to the strip joint and it is that u can rampage and kill everyone in there (yeah pretty sick) and one of the women has a dagger which u cant obtain through other means (like buying it). s'alright weapon, like the machete its just a novelty i guess.

should first buy the places with garages. theres one on the left island that has garages AND a heli-pad on the roof thats pretty sweet.
You are the VC Mafia Don, my good man. :wink: When I start playing Vice City, I'll be expecting tips.

[ellsworth81]

oh, ok :)
but i was so excited about the strip joint!!

thx though... i'm not at the point where i can buy anything but apartments, but I'm really looking forward to being able to rule vice city with an iron fist!!

you can unlock the strip joint's money making counter by spending $500 in the private room. takes like 5 min for $500 to deplete from your account, so be go find something else to do. all you have to do is sit there and watch the money dwindle away.

[VV o n g B a]

man... he's just so incredibly uncool. he needs to pull that pole outta his ass.

---------------
Lieberman Denounces 'Grand Theft Auto' Video Game
Sun January 25, 2004 06:21 PM ET

HANOVER, N.H. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman, who led the fight in Congress against excessive sex and violence in the entertainment industry, denounced a top-selling video game on Sunday.
The Connecticut senator called the game, "Grand Theft Auto," "horrendous" and said its maker, New York-based Rockstar Games Inc., ought to be more responsible.

"Video games have gotten better over time," Lieberman said during a women's forum at Dartmouth College sponsored by Lifetime Television. "But there's a couple out there that are horrendous."

"You ought to see one called "Grand Theft Auto," he said. "The player is rewarded for attacking a woman, pushing her to the ground, kicking her repeatedly and then ultimately killing her, shooting her over and over again."

"I call on the entertainment companies -- they've got a right to do that, but they have a responsibility not to do it if we want to raise the next generation of our sons to treat women with respect."

The award-winning video game, which isn't intended for anyone under 17 years of age, has sold more than 10 million copies. Rockstar Games is the publishing division of Take-Two Interactive Software .

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=industryNews&storyID=4202668

[ellsworth81]

lieberman is such an amazing dumbass. hollywood (among others) is just as irresponsible in the content they put up on screen too.

fuckin' hold the rest of the world to the same standard.

man... he's just so incredibly uncool. he needs to pull that pole outta his ass.

---------------
Lieberman Denounces 'Grand Theft Auto' Video Game
Sun January 25, 2004 06:21 PM ET

HANOVER, N.H. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman, who led the fight in Congress against excessive sex and violence in the entertainment industry, denounced a top-selling video game on Sunday.
The Connecticut senator called the game, "Grand Theft Auto," "horrendous" and said its maker, New York-based Rockstar Games Inc., ought to be more responsible.

"Video games have gotten better over time," Lieberman said during a women's forum at Dartmouth College sponsored by Lifetime Television. "But there's a couple out there that are horrendous."

"You ought to see one called "Grand Theft Auto," he said. "The player is rewarded for attacking a woman, pushing her to the ground, kicking her repeatedly and then ultimately killing her, shooting her over and over again."

"I call on the entertainment companies -- they've got a right to do that, but they have a responsibility not to do it if we want to raise the next generation of our sons to treat women with respect."

The award-winning video game, which isn't intended for anyone under 17 years of age, has sold more than 10 million copies. Rockstar Games is the publishing division of Take-Two Interactive Software .

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=industryNews&storyID=4202668

[TB4000]

man... he's just so incredibly uncool. he needs to pull that pole outta his ass.

---------------
Lieberman Denounces 'Grand Theft Auto' Video Game
Sun January 25, 2004 06:21 PM ET

HANOVER, N.H. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman, who led the fight in Congress against excessive sex and violence in the entertainment industry, denounced a top-selling video game on Sunday.
The Connecticut senator called the game, "Grand Theft Auto," "horrendous" and said its maker, New York-based Rockstar Games Inc., ought to be more responsible.

"Video games have gotten better over time," Lieberman said during a women's forum at Dartmouth College sponsored by Lifetime Television. "But there's a couple out there that are horrendous."

"You ought to see one called "Grand Theft Auto," he said. "The player is rewarded for attacking a woman, pushing her to the ground, kicking her repeatedly and then ultimately killing her, shooting her over and over again."

"I call on the entertainment companies -- they've got a right to do that, but they have a responsibility not to do it if we want to raise the next generation of our sons to treat women with respect."

The award-winning video game, which isn't intended for anyone under 17 years of age, has sold more than 10 million copies. Rockstar Games is the publishing division of Take-Two Interactive Software .

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=industryNews&storyID=4202668
LOL, yeah our video game heroes should just stick to attacking, killing, kicking and shooting guys...that means we're MUCH more sane. :rolleyes:

[Kennyb]

I remember I did a study about computer game violence for my degree, if I can find it I'll put it up onto the web.

Personally, it is more to do with the individuals of how they take in the violence and whether they will use it in reality. Ok, so I played abit too much of those fighting games and try those moves on friends and so but what about WWE?? I've seen plenty of kids copying wrestling moves - it's not just computer games that makes people violent aswell.

*Goes off in search for his work*

[mr. x]

hey kittygirl, look up Vice City maps on google or whatever and u should find some nice stuff that'll tell u where all the packages/properties/items/weapons are

[Faithless]

I could say this for people who watch Fox TV. :rolleyes:

"Children don't have the same kind of maturity and experiences as adults do. ''Left to their own devices, children often do not realise the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games."

Violent videogames bill passes Senate committee hearing in Florida (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14050)

Paul Loughrey 10:21 13/01/2006

Latest state videogames legislation passed by a vote of 7-1

The continued efforts by US states to introduce legislation preventing the sale of violent videogames to minors took another turn yesterday, as a Florida Senate committee hearing passed a new bill by a vote of 7-1.

Senate Bill 492, sponsored by Florida Senator Alex Diaz de la Portilla, is closely modelled on the California AB1179, imposing fines for retailers selling violent videogames to minors of up to USD 1000 per infraction. Additionally, the bill would impose government-approved labels on videogames, on top of the existing self-regulatory ESRB ratings system.

In a statement to the Miami Herald, Senator Diaz de la Portilla commented: "Children don't have the same kind of maturity and experiences as adults do. ''Left to their own devices, children often do not realise the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games."

Despite the bill passing the committee hearing, actual implementation of the legislation would seem highly unlikely. The continued efforts of the Entertainment Software Association have so far resulted in the prevention of similar laws in Indianapolis, Michigan and Illinois. The publicly debated California bill introduced by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was also halted recently, on the grounds of being unconstitutional.

Entertainment Software Association representative, Sally Jefferson commented: ''Video games are protected speech under the First Amendment just like movies, books and television."

The ESA is also contesting Senator Clinton's Family Entertainment Protection Act, which also closely follows the proposed legislation from various States, including those pending in Delaware, Indiana and Maryland.

[mr. x]

as much as I wouldve hated to have a law like that in place when I was a minor Im sure I'll look at it differently when games get incredibly real, where Silent Hill type games start looking more and more like photorealistic Saw/Hostels

[Faithless]

I read somewhere that violent video game sales are on the decline. Nevertheless, congress wants to push the issue of restricting them.

What Sam Brownback says:

“The First Amendment guarantees the right to free speech. What too many in the media industry fail to realize is that this right is not without limits, particularly when it comes to minors.”

Sound like legislating morality?

Violent Video Games Decried in Senate Panel (http://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0040004.cfm)

March 30, 2006 | by Steve Jordahl

Those who have seen the effects of violent video games plead for help from Congress.

States are passing laws that restrict the sale of violent video games to young people but the courts are striking them down. The Senate is getting involved, asking those affected to share their stories. One is Steve Strickland. He knows about the harm violent video games can do. He told Senators how a teenager murdered his brother and two fellow police officers.

“You see, they were not just shot; all three received a bullet to the head after they were on the floor. Devin Moore practiced on this game hour after hour to kill our loved ones. It made him a more effective killer.”

Bob Hoose writes about gaming violence for Plugged In Magazine.

“And we get used to it. We take it for granted and it’s not something that’s outside our norm anymore. It’s something that they’re desensitized to.”

Since 2001, four states and two cities have passed laws restricting a minor’s access to violent video games, but the laws were struck down by federal courts. Democrat Russ Feingold of Wisconsin thinks that wise.

“As in so many areas, though, Congress must be careful to consider the constitutional questions related to any attempt to address violence in video games.”

Brownback agrees but still wants the litigation to stop.

“The First Amendment guarantees the right to free speech. What too many in the media industry fail to realize is that this right is not without limits, particularly when it comes to minors.”

In a ruling this week, the Alabama Supreme Court denied the video game industry’s First Amendment-based appeal in the wrongful death suit against Officer Strickland’s killer.