The Racialization of the Asian-American

[AngryABCGirl]

I've noticed a lot of the Asian-American, though definitely not the majority, activists and even staff at the department of Asian-American studies at my school seem to want to disassociate Asia or anything like that from Asian-Americans. One of the peer adivisors from the department of Asian-American studies even blantantly said, "Asian studies is filled with white professors, Asian-American studies has Asian professors, who do you trust? The school is 40% Asian but your professors aren't 40% Asian, do you see a problem with this?" (I just want to say however, this isn't at all representative of the whole of the Asian-American studies department at my school that I do highly respect).

Too many people want to disassociate certain cultural aspects with many problems that are funded on them, such as individualism versus the family and gender roles. I've noticed this tends to be among 2nd or 3rd gen Asian-Americans who probably have less association with Asian cultures.

Since 70% of Asians in the US are foreign born and a good deal of them are now growing up in comfortable and relatively unthreatened enclaves, it really makes absolutely no sense to disassociate Asia and Asian culture so completely from Asians in America.

As for me, my "problems" being Chinese-American and relating to the mainstream have definitely come from cultural differences and misunderstandings. Being taunted based on race or feeling inferior because of my skin color or my Asian body was never ever a problem for me. When I felt uncomfortable around white people, it wasn't the overwhelming yellowness of my skin that was an issue, it was the worry that they would never understand me or tolerate me when they got to know me.

I wonder how everyone else feels about this, have the problems you've encountered because of being a minority come from being culturally different or the physical construct of race? What about when people, especially other Asian-Americans try to pigeon-hole complicated issues and just shove it into the box called racism?

[SunWuKong]

that's really ignorant of them to say that we should trust the Asian American studies professors more because they're Asian as opposed to Asian studies professors because they're white. my Chinese history prof is white. he speaks and reads Chinese. he reads and understands classical Chinese. he has lived extensively in China, even in the poor rural areas, because of the nature of his research. compare him to a Chinese American professor who speaks accented Chinese and has only been to China/Taiwan for a few weeks to a month at a time. who do i trust more? now that's a no-brainer.

[achtungbaby]

One of the peer adivisors from the department of Asian-American studies even blantantly said, "Asian studies is filled with white professors, Asian-American studies has Asian professors, who do you trust?Trust for what?

[kasia]

have you taken a class from dr. stanley sue - the director of the asian amer studies department?

he specifically talks about - in one of his upper div. classes - how many activists of other ethnicities get involved because they are lacking something to feel passionate about in their lives. he compares this with immigrant asians, who focus their lives on family. etc. etc.

not sure what you mean by disassociating asia...

[AngryABCGirl]

Trust for what?

She didn't say, that's exactly what she said.

[AngryABCGirl]

have you taken a class from dr. stanley sue - the director of the asian amer studies department?

he specifically talks about - in one of his upper div. classes - how many activists of other ethnicities get involved because they are lacking something to feel passionate about in their lives. he compares this with immigrant asians, who focus their lives on family. etc. etc.

not sure what you mean by disassociating asia...

No, not yet anyway. By diassociating Asia I mean more of the fact that many people want to consider themselves just as American as anyone else in America, culturally as well and don't want to be associated with Asia or its culture and politics. Unfortunately, most Asian-Americans today are at least SOMEWHAT culturally associated with somewhere their parents came from or more likely somewhere they came from. The people who are 3rd or 4th generation that are totally Americanized and can comfortably believe themselves as much are the minority.

[kasia]

No, not yet anyway. By diassociating Asia I mean more of the fact that many people want to consider themselves just as American as anyone else in America, culturally as well and don't want to be associated with Asia or its culture and politics. Unfortunately, most Asian-Americans today are at least SOMEWHAT culturally associated with somewhere their parents came from or more likely somewhere they came from. The people who are 3rd or 4th generation that are totally Americanized and can comfortably believe themselves as much are the minority.

hm...i'm still trying to understand exactly what the issue is.

i understand that you're saying we differ with regards to degree of assimilation/acculturation in accordance with how long we have been here. why is this a problem? is it b/c those in asian am are more 3rd and 4th generation-like and therefore cannot truly represent the larger group? (i know i did hold that feeling when i was at davis.)

can you give an example of us "pigeon-holing" a complex issue as racism?

[AngryABCGirl]

hm...i'm still trying to understand exactly what the issue is.

i understand that you're saying we differ with regards to degree of assimilation/acculturation in accordance with how long we have been here. why is this a problem? is it b/c those in asian am are more 3rd and 4th generation-like and therefore cannot truly represent the larger group? (i know i did hold that feeling when i was at davis.)

can you give an example of us "pigeon-holing" a complex issue as racism?

I'm trying to understand why people won't view the entire experience of Asian-America as something huge and varied and try to pin it down to one. Aren't we doing the same thing to ourselves then that racial minorities feel that society is doing to them by assuming the same thing for an entirer group?

I think I might just be pissed off after coming back home here and seeing the hypocrisy of it all by people who know nothing of most of their community but assume they are the entire thing.

[kasia]

I'm trying to understand why people won't view the entire experience of Asian-America as something huge and varied and try to pin it down to one. Aren't we doing the same thing to ourselves then that racial minorities feel that society is doing to them by assuming the same thing for an entirer group?

I think I might just be pissed off after coming back home here and seeing the hypocrisy of it all by people who know nothing of most of their community but assume they are the entire thing.

yeh, i get what you mean. i've always wanted to change that by - you know, getting people that we *do* identify with (i call them the "true asians" - our friends) more involved in the community. but many of them are not motivated. so, you can't really blame those who are involved. blame the ones who refuse to be, is how i see it.

and bess - this only is an indication of how you are an asset to the asian political community b/c there are so little activists out there who truly understand things from an asian "grassroots" perspective.

[BeTheReds]

This was the whole thing that turned me off to activism. How the ASU decided to change itself to Asian American Student Union, and despite the fact that I felt culturally more asian than many of the adamant activists in the AASU, nothing I said carried any weight because of how I looked. Which basically equates to similar looks=community, dissimilar looks = barbarian outsider.

Furthermore, I think that woman who said, who do you trust is a bitch. My teachers in Asian Studies courses were all white, except for two. From Dr. Lilly who spoke accented Mandarin, I learned a lot about ancient asian civ, as well as a whole depth of Korean history.

To be honest, the Asian teachers I had in Asian studies were shitty. They spoke with shitty accents that made lectures impossible to understand. I'm not trying to be racist at all when I say that, but I think if someone is going to be teaching something in english, they should be able to speak english. I learned much more from white professors than I did from fobby asian-american ones. Furthermore, what are you supposed to be "trusting" them for?

[BeTheReds]

I'm trying to understand why people won't view the entire experience of Asian-America as something huge and varied and try to pin it down to one.


Political clout. Trying to convince sheep that 1st generation bangladeshi-americans and 1.5 generation korean-americans are on the same front as 4th generation chinese-americans.

It's hypocritical in a sense, as they want to send the message that we are all one united ethnicity, but will be quick to jump on white people for being racist if they don't know the difference between asian ethnicities.

[>:^|]

Well, I think that there are several things going on here.

I think that some people believe that arguing for "full Americanness" (whatever the heck that means) means disavowing their heritage. And I think that this is something people often do as children or young adults as a means of fitting in. But I also think that the need to deny one piece is representative of our inability to hold what appear to be inherent contradictions.

They don't need to be, but the reality is that many people (Asian and non-Asian alike) see the dual identity of the Asian American as problematic. Look at how people say, "I'm sick of this hyphenated-American thing. People need to be just Americans"--as if being an Asian American is a disloyalty to the country.

And some Asians seem to be swallowing the general American viewpoint that other cultures are backwards. Look at the "Rickshaw Rally" crap. We get inundated with that kind of message on a regular basis.

Asian America is not one homogenous country. It is a landscape full of differing experiences. But at times we also share one common factor--being seen as lumpen yellow folks. So for certain issues we may stand together. This may confound our presentation of ourselves as individuals.

[AngryABCGirl]

[QUOTE=>:^|]Well, I think that there are several things going on here.

I think that some people believe that arguing for "full Americanness" (whatever the heck that means) means disavowing their heritage. And I think that this is something people often do as children or young adults as a means of fitting in. But I also think that the need to deny one piece is representative of our inability to hold what appear to be inherent contradictions.

They don't need to be, but the reality is that many people (Asian and non-Asian alike) see the dual identity of the Asian American as problematic. Look at how people say, "I'm sick of this hyphenated-American thing. People need to be just Americans"--as if being an Asian American is a disloyalty to the country.
QUOTE]

That's horribly sad and unrealistic to think that we have to let go of everything we can from to be fully American. I know at some points my parents thought I should become more American cause they thought I couldn't interact with a society outside of my circle of friends, but you can't deny that you ever truly make who you are FALL OUT OF YOUR ASS.

And the bit about the identity, someone did a study in San Francisco (not sure of the details, my ASA textbook is back at my home in Davis, not there right now) and found that Asian-American high school aged students had a lower self-esteem or perception about their ethnic identity than Chicano and African-American students. Sad, but I can see why that can be true for the very reasons you're talking about.

[kimpossible]

Political clout. Trying to convince sheep that 1st generation bangladeshi-americans and 1.5 generation korean-americans are on the same front as 4th generation chinese-americans.


You wouldn't even for a moment consider a notion like elastic boundaries to define community in the name of unity to combat issues that could potentially affect the first generation Bangladeshi-American, 1.5 gen Korean-American and fourth generation Chinese-Americans? How is it any different than Democrats or Republicans forming parties? Each is rife with disagreement and splinter groups. They merely follow a standard (as in banner or ensign) so their greater political agendas can be met.

I think we have congruent views on the nature and purpose of unity but differ in interpreting it as 'good' or 'bad.' I don't necessarily link political unity inversely proportional to the allowance of individual cultural or ethnic identity.

Maybe I'm not understanding you well enough.

[>:^|]

You wouldn't even for a moment consider a notion like elastic boundaries to define community in the name of unity to combat issues that could potentially affect the first generation Bangladeshi-American, 1.5 gen Korean-American and fourth generation Chinese-Americans?

I agree with this. Sometimes we unite solely because we share an issue. Some have argued that the pan-Asian identity is formed in reaction to social forces--as a result of being discriminated against as a single group, and not because we see ourselves as all being the same. We're not necessarily driving the pan-Asian identity; it sometimes feels like a logistical necessity.

Of course, I also feel that I have multiple identities. I think this is difficult for most White Americans to fathom as they largely don't consider racial or ethnic identity as fundamental.

On a side note: At a professional conference I had the opportunity to speak with an Asian American presenter, and one of the questions I asked her was how she navigated through a system that is largely eurocentric and laden with misconceptions about Asian Americans. She looked at me and said, "You have to remember, my adviser was Dr. Sue."

I very nearly cried. :(

I'm not entirely sure what Dr. Sue's ethnicity is other than he's a yellow guy, but what I really feel I have missed was the chance to have a mentor who saw me as a complex individual. Okay, maybe it's possible that I might have a non-Asian mentor that would be able to do so. But it hasn't been my general experience. To get back to AznBuffGrl's original question, I don't think it's necessarily my cultural differences that cause me problems. More and more, I am aware of how strongly my physical appearance (my race) affects others' thought processes.

[hooligan]

back on topic, right now, after kind of figuring out my asian pacific american identity. i am DESPERATELY trying to find my asian identity. i'm trying to learn the chinese that i lost when i was young and i am trying to communicate with my grandparents to learn about my history.

it breaks my heart because i feel as though there's this HUGE history right at my fingertips (ok ok, so my grandparents are living in SGV) and i can't even speak enough chinese to be able to learn about my great grandfather. the one time i went back to taiwan my mom had to translate a lot of the signs for me. my knowledge of chinese is broken and i can really do is listen and understand, but not reply.

i learned that you can't take the asian out of the asian pacific american. so many of the issues that affect asian pacific america are closely tied to immigration and international politics. it's unnatural to remove one from the other.

i think that culture and specific ethnic issues falls under the umbrella idea of race. i don't think it's fair to call it pigeon-holing an issue because it deals with the idea of asians in america. and when you discuss asians in america you're always going to discuss the issue of how race is interpreted in culture or how culture influences the perceptions of race.

[kasia]

actually, the proper term is now APIA, right?

[hooligan]

actually, the proper term is now APIA, right?
asian pacific american
asian pacific islander american? i'm not sure, i know we use APA all the time in class, talking communities. so, i guess both of them work unless there's literature out there that i haven't read?

-ben

[NeoteriX]

As far as I know, the "correct term" varies from APIA (Asian Pacific Islander American) to AAPI (Asian American or Pacific Islander), I was told that in like Hawai'i, for example, AAPI is a little more PC...

Anyway, back on track...

The whole distinction between Asian and Asian American is something that I've struggled with for sometime. If people think like I do, maybe the whole disassociation thing is a backlash reaction... I guess my idea is that your identity, be it Asian American or Asian or whatever is a two way street. It is partially what you yourself identify with and then it's what others associate with that particular identity.

I grew up in white suburbia and didn't get a chance to learn very much about my language and ethnic history growing up -- and yeah, that's fine, and it was something that was largely out of my control. I would be fine identifying myself as Vietnamese, except many times others who would identify themselves in the same way point to my lack of "Vietnamese" -- that I can't speak or write the language, that I know very little in the way of traditions...

So maybe it's a natural human tendency to create in groups and out groups. So maybe after being excluded from being able to call myself Vietnamese, I'll find another indentity, say... "Asian American," one I can relate to and one that others will find acceptable as well. Maybe while I'm at it, I'll start to exclude those who were doing the same to me before -- look down on their "traditional" values, question their patriotism and socio-political awareness, etc. and hoist myself up on a pedestal, claiming that my way is better because I'm facing the reality that we're Asians in America and we'd better start realizing that.

*shrug* So maybe that's the way your prof thinks. Yeah, I identify myself as Asian American, but not necessarily by choice. If you told me tomorrow that I was actually ethnically Chinese or something, I would still think of myself as Vietnamese -- the few things that I do know, like the foods and my mom yelling at me in Vietnamese will never leave me. However, sometimes that's not good enough for everyone else.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

well if there's APIAs, then shouldn't white people be called European Atlantic Islander Americans? eaia!

[>:^|]

Pacific Islander academics are now trying to separate Pacific Island studies from Asian American studies. I often wonder what this will mean for the broader identity.

[hooligan]

there was talk about starting a south asian studies center here, but i think those who were talking about it were speaking for a minority of people.

split political power? give more attention to specific ethnicities? i guess we'll only see it when it happens.

[deez nuts]

well if there's APIAs, then shouldn't white people be called European Atlantic Islander Americans? eaia!


i want to be known as eieio