The Formation of Your Racial Identity

[AngryABCGirl]

Someone brought up a question on the formation of racial identities in another thread, but it would have digressed from the original topic so I'm gonna start it here:

My own racial identity (not cultural) evolved along the lines of self-segregation in ethnic enclaves in the Los Angeles area. Since I grew up in a mainly Chinese area, I was shielded by some of the inferiority issues many Asian-Americans grew up with, but exposed to the anger and racism that was there/ is there the Chinese development in San Gabriel Valley and attitudes of white flight in the places my family lived in and moved into. It goes without saying much I didn't have good impressions of White people even though I hardly knew any, but it wasn't on my mind most of the time. They were waiguoren (outsiders) to me. However I didn't feel particulary activist and felt relatively safe in the confines of the San Gabriel Valley. I had my awaking so to speak when I was exposed to a lot of blantant cultural prejudice (not racial) when I first went to an environment of non-Asians and their inability to accept different cultural viewpoints or standards in an emotionally charged and polarized situation. That insensitivity of it shocked me but so did my own differences to other people, mainly Whites and Blacks.

That was also the first time I realized I probably wouldn't ever really be able to integrate into mainstream American culture because of deeply set cultural roots after living in an ethnic enclave all my life and the association of those roots with the color of my skin. For awhile I believe that we could all kind of just live in our hamlets and tolerate each other and accept that we were different. I went through the "the gwai laus are out to get us stage" for awhile because I was pretty much tramatized and didn't want to leave enclave life. It eventually be a bit more proactive and I started getting interested in Asian-American issues, in contrast to just being concerned with the Chinese in my community. After awhile when I finally moved away I guess I had to learn "not to hate the playa, hate the game" since many of my friends weren't Chinese or Asian anymore and just try to change one person at a time and not be hostile and try to have some mutual understanding to accept mutual differences. I'd like to think that's possible or else people aren't going to get very far trying to live with each other in America. Although if there's one thing I'm convinced about at least among certain situations, culture and deeply set values play a part greater than the color of your skin in many of the conflicts we call "race problems" in America, and then the question of it all stops being race and starts being culture, and that's a whole other ball game and identity entirely.

[nonamerasian]

At which age was your first identity change?

[Blue dice]

I had my awaking so to speak when I was exposed to a lot of blantant cultural prejudice (not racial) when I first went to an environment of non-Asians and their inability to accept different cultural viewpoints or standards in an emotionally charged and polarized situation. That insensitivity of it shocked me but so did my own differences to other people, mainly Whites and Blacks.

I've always maintained that there are two types of asian-americans. The ones who grew up in ethnic enclaves and have never experienced "white" society aside from television or the occasional encounter. Then there are asian americans like myself who grew up in a predominately "white" state before moving to the more multicultural southern california area. Since i've been exposed to white society growing up I feel I can see incidences of racism more clearly. Some asian-americans who grew up in ethnic enclaves have an idealized view of the outside world and what "white" is. The reality is places like Southern California, NY, etc. hardly reflect the rest of the U.S. In a way the san gabriel valley or other asian heavy locations are their own countries.

When I talk to my southern californian asian american friends oftentimes they think i'm a little too sensitive about incidences I view as racially insulting. Then again I realize they can't see my viewpoint because they have probably never experienced direct racism in a completely "white" environment. In effect they are shielded from the rest of America which can be negative if you want to make it in this world. Some of them are incredibly naive and feel that racism doesn't really happen against asians.

[Tao]

I've always maintained that there are two types of asian-americans. The ones who grew up in ethnic enclaves and have never experienced "white" society aside from television or the occasional encounter. Then there are asian americans like myself who grew up in a predominately "white" state before moving to the more multicultural southern california area. Since i've been exposed to white society growing up I feel I can see incidences of racism more clearly. Some asian-americans who grew up in ethnic enclaves have an idealized view of the outside world and what "white" is. The reality is places like Southern California, NY, etc. hardly reflect the rest of the U.S. In a way the san gabriel valley or other asian heavy locations are their own countries.

When I talk to my southern californian asian american friends oftentimes they think i'm a little too sensitive about incidences I view as racially insulting. Then again I realize they can't see my viewpoint because they have probably never experienced direct racism in a completely "white" environment. In effect they are shielded from the rest of America which can be negative if you want to make it in this world. Some of them are incredibly naive and feel that racism doesn't really happen against asians.
hmmm...about the enclaved AA, i don't think that they are as naive as you think they are.

as for aa's who grew up in mostly non asian neighborhoods, I tend to split the group up into two. those that are well integrated with their neighbors and community, and those that are considered outcasts. So basically three groups.

[hooligan]

it's ironic that my experience is probably almost the opposite of yours. born in ny and grew up in the suburbas of north orange county. i barely got to know anyone who was ethnically chinese, much less chinese american. there were probably 5 chinese students at my high school and only 1 other chinese in my elementary school.

i grew up with a bunch of white kids, who i called my friends. i grew up not fearing white people, picking up on a lot of "white" things. punk rock, skateboarding, etc. when i went to high school i stayed away from a lot of the white kids and the asian kids and went through some sort of racial limbo where i rejected a lot of my asian and white roots. there was a large amount of dissonance in my life and a lot of wondering "where the hell do i fit in..." kind of thoughts. I went through a lot soul searching and trying to figure out my place in Asian America.

fast forward to my first couple of years in college. i went through a i hate asian phase with a chinese american friend of mine. honestly, there is a lot of well of asian americans at ucla. a lot of them don't seem to think that it's even feasible for asian americans to be poor. eventually, i decided to learn more about what being chinese american meant and read some asian american authors and took some asian am classes.

i believe that race still places a large part of how asians, whites, blacks, and latinos play into each other. i mean culturally, you can say i'm a little bit "white washed" and i grew up thinking that being american meant that you had to be white. no matter how culturally "white" i was, i was still yellow to a lot of white people. No matter, what i did in terms of being culturally "white" i still was looked as asian and foreign. i don't know if it's a mental thing, but people watch what they say around me and they say "just because you're asian (or chinese) ... blah blah blah ..."

i think, now, i'm completely comfortable in my skin. i know that my racial identity might irk a lot of chinese americans (i've talked to my fair share who still don't think i'm chinese), but i believe that i'm chinese american and i'm proud of my heritage, culture, history and race. talk about a complete 180 from how i was my first year at ucla. i found it easier to talk about race to asian americans who aren't conscious about issues that deal with race ie. affirmative action, education and talking about "race" as opposed to "ethnicity".

-ben

[hooligan]

^bump :D

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I've always maintained that there are two types of asian-americans. The ones who grew up in ethnic enclaves and have never experienced "white" society aside from television or the occasional encounter. Then there are asian americans like myself who grew up in a predominately "white" state before moving to the more multicultural southern california area. Since i've been exposed to white society growing up I feel I can see incidences of racism more clearly. Some asian-americans who grew up in ethnic enclaves have an idealized view of the outside world and what "white" is.

My perspective as a result of my experiences is almost the exact opposite. AA's coming from ethnic enclaves tend to be more close-minded and anti-white, whereas I grew up in a wonderbread community thinking that racism didn't exist anymore simply because nobody tossed racial slurs at me and we all sang Martin Luther King songs each year in grade school.

[SunWuKong]

i've done it all.
i've been a fob, i've been white-washed, i've been born-again Asian American, i've been a bob (back on the boat! since i went back to HK to live). i'm like, Mr. Asian America. without the good looks.

now i think of myself as Overseas Chinese.


you know what's interesting? some Asian Americans who grew up with white people seem to have had been pretty shielded from racism, and then there are others who grew up with white people but were exposed to quite a bit of racism from them. i personally have had received racism from white people when i was surrounded by them. but that doesn't mean i don't have white friends either.

[Craig]

i've done it all.
i've been a fob, i've been white-washed, i've been born-again Asian American, i've been a bob (back on the boat! since i went back to HK to live). i'm like, Mr. Asian America. without the good looks.

now i think of myself as Overseas Chinese.



that's cool.
but am i the only person who has spent time being surrounded mostly by white people, and had racial slurs thrown at me by the white people?Nope, I'm in the same boat.

[SunWuKong]

Nope, I'm in the same boat.

yeah i realised that it's not as uncommon as i thought.
so i edited my post... :tongue:

[AngryABCGirl]

you know what's interesting? some Asian Americans who grew up with white people seem to have had been pretty shielded from racism, and then there are others who grew up with white people but were exposed to quite a bit of racism from them. i personally have had received racism from white people when i was surrounded by them. but that doesn't mean i don't have white friends either.

I'm surrounded by white people now most of the time, but I've never recieved racism from people I'm closer to now. Other times I have been exposed to quite a bit of racism. I think that experience plus the fact that I think differently than most white Americans keeps me from letting them into my inner circle.

[John0101]

you know what's interesting? some Asian Americans who grew up with white people seem to have had been pretty shielded from racism, and then there are others who grew up with white people but were exposed to quite a bit of racism from them. i personally have had received racism from white people when i was surrounded by them. but that doesn't mean i don't have white friends either.

interesting point, I do think asian american who grew up around white do experience racism to a degree. The simple wispers, stares, and uncomfortableness because you are the only asian person in the room.

[stunninglyAsian]

Honestly, I don't know.

I grew up in the midwest and have experienced racism. Since there aren't any Asians to turn to for support, I turned to the lone black kid and the hapa for support. So I'm pretty open and comfortable with different types of people rather than accepting the MTV mainstream culture and rejecting any "foreign" culture. At the same time, I experienced discrimination from Asians, so sometimes I don't feel comfortable around Asians. But I am aware of the fact that I am Korean and accept that fact; I've also assimilated pretty well into other Asian cultures- i.e. Chinese and Japanese via friends. So really, I'm a blend of everything but I don't feel like I can neatly define my racial identity as Korean or even Asian. I don't understand American society and I don't get Asian American culture. I'm always the the odd one in the group because I'm not white, or I don't speak Korean, or I don't do all the things that a cultural group does. I never really get the inside jokes, I'm always the outsider.

People who I feel most comfortable around are people that are open and enjoy different people and cultures, but they don't feel like they fit in anywhere, like a person that endlessly moves. I think we connect because we're not anything but everything... it's weird.

[nameless]

People who I feel most comfortable around are people that are open and enjoy different people and cultures, but they don't feel like they fit in anywhere, like a person that endlessly moves. I think we connect because we're not anything but everything... it's weird.


Personally, I see that as more of a case of being nothing, rather than everything. Being everything implies that you can be accepted by all groups, but (and this is coming from similar experience) that's obviously not the case - we're too Asian for the white folk (or whatever) and not Asian enough for the ethnic enclave Asians. With the 'grey zone' people, you find a collective comfort in your 'suffering', which is a group in itself, I think.

[ShortNBitter]

Growing up in white suburbia Orinda, I grew up befriended by I'd say a majority of white kids. All that sandbox and swingset good times like that. At school I was American. At home though I was Asian. I would go with my parents to Oakland Chinatown probably every weekend and have Pho or Dim Sum or something~ to be hoenst I somewhat disliked these days and I'd want to go home all the time. For the most part I considered myself American Asian and somewhat based the premise of my ethnic identity on that. (American first.) Middle school was much the same. I dove into American culture like I had none of my own forgetting my home and heritage. My friends probably because of the impact of the media were into pr0n, and as I might as well, I followed on.

For most of these years all the way into Middle School, I felt as if I did not have a place. People accepted me, but I felt like it was just one connection. It wasn't until freshman year of highschool where I met my good friend Aaron Lee. You didn't need to know his name, but I feel like I should give him props. Because as a direct import from Pinole, he approached me with his foreign "ghetto" slang talking about Asian pride and all of that.

The first thing he asked me was "What are you?" I replied, a bit confused by his direct and upfront greeting, but still replying, "half Vietnamese and half Chinese." Eyes wide, and beginning to form his popular pose which I'd see many times in the future he said respectfully "faShoFasho Vietpride, Nigga" and quickly adding in a playful way "haha I'm not Viet but its all good."

To be frank, he opened up a whole new world. This "AzN Pride" or rebirth of who I knew myself to be. I probably doesn't sound like much, but uptill then I mean... I was Asian, but so what? (Although this was just the first chapter in my quest of selfknowing, It was a major one.) Everything Aaron did reeked of coolness. From his use of the word "nigga" due to his new found freedom of a white suburbia, to his seemingly infinitely vast knowledge of cars, and even to his opposition to teenage sex and repulsion to the filth and amoral ways of American movies. It all seemed to so foreign. I went through an Asian Pride stage. Yes, I used the tag "AzN." Aaron was like a leader for me bringing part of his world into my own; even at the cost of his "bleaching" as he called being white-washed/. I felt bad for him; He was just as lost as I was in a place he didn't know. I felt bad for anybody who had to grow up not knowing who they really were.

That probably explains why I have somewhat dislike for the kind of Asian girls who exclusively date white guys. Just like, not even giving a chance, but begrudgingly judging. Judging without knowledge.

Especially with this new idea against "judging without knowledge", eventually I felt like I had learned all I could from Aaron. I saw that my Asian heritage was a major part of who I was... but it wasn't the end as so many people before me have stopped at this step. I figured that an identity is more than just some Tag, but a self definition of myself. And all sorts of things contribute to a human being, so for now I've set up many more pedastools to add to the collage that is me. So, here I am, trying to piece myself together.

[sinojet]

Interesting to know about the stories of ya overseas asians. I've been through pretty much most of the things mentioned. In terms of cultural identity, I also went through the same predicament growing up in a non-chinese environment.

I find it hard to be accepted because of my ethnic background, and I always hang out with other asian kids at the time.

[>:^|]

Although if there's one thing I'm convinced about at least among certain situations, culture and deeply set values play a part greater than the color of your skin in many of the conflicts we call "race problems" in America, and then the question of it all stops being race and starts being culture, and that's a whole other ball game and identity entirely.

Hmmm ... I don't know that culture and race can be disentangled. But I believe that race has such primacy in the United States that it has taken on a life of its own.

you know what's interesting? some Asian Americans who grew up with white people seem to have had been pretty shielded from racism, and then there are others who grew up with white people but were exposed to quite a bit of racism from them. i personally have had received racism from white people when i was surrounded by them. but that doesn't mean i don't have white friends either.

Clarification, please. Especially about being "shielded." Not trying to be snippy, just want to hear more. :smile:

[hooligan]

Clarification, please. Especially about being "shielded." Not trying to be snippy, just want to hear more. :smile: i'm going to be snippy and call you on this. what exactly do you mean by "shielded." if you think shielded is basically having all these white people judge you on white standards every day of your life, i guess you and i have different definitions of shielding. i think if you're a person of color growing up in an enivornment that's mostly white, you're going to be exposed to a lot of racism. it's whether or not you're attuned to it, is the issue.

now that i've grown up, i think asians who grew up around white people aren't shielded at all, they've probably gotten more exposed to racism to say, someone who's grown up in chinatown. but i'll agree that asians who grow up around a lot of whites tend to have been exposed to a lot of racism.

[AngryABCGirl]

now that i've grown up, i think asians who grew up around white people aren't shielded at all, they've probably gotten more exposed to racism to say, someone who's grown up in chinatown. but i'll agree that asians who grow up around a lot of whites tend to have been exposed to a lot of racism.

As the closet thing to someone who grew up in Chinatown, the main exposure I had to Whites ended up being a lot of racism, so my limited impressions weren't very good. I'd also been taught to not mix with the law wais and waiguoren by family and reinforced with that by my peers. Most of my friends I ended up making outside of other Asians ended being Chicano kids cause in some essence we were going through the same thing. I still haven't had any close white friends(excluding Hapas) in my life and I don't even know if I ever will let people in. I feel like my situation is a bit beyond what I'd hope to explain.

[hooligan]

As the closet thing to someone who grew up in Chinatown, the main exposure I had to Whites ended up being a lot of racism, so my limited impressions weren't very good. I'd also been taught to not mix with the law wais and waiguoren by family and reinforced with that by my peers. Most of my friends I ended up making outside of other Asians ended being Chicano kids cause in some essence we were going through the same thing. I still haven't had any close white friends(excluding Hapas) in my life and I don't even know if I ever will let people in. I feel like my situation is a bit beyond what I'd hope to explain. you know what's funny? after leaving high school i haven't had a close white friend my four years at ucla. i guess after 18 years of having white friends i'm starting to get acquianted with the asians more. kind of like yours [situation], but different. : \

[SunWuKong]

Clarification, please. Especially about being "shielded." Not trying to be snippy, just want to hear more. :smile:

what i mean is that it seems that some Asians who grew up in a white suburban neighborhood say that they haven't experienced much racism. so in that sense, they are "shielded" from the racism that does exist in this country.

[Craig]

what i mean is that it seems that some Asians who grew up in a white suburban neighborhood say that they haven't experienced much racism. so in that sense, they are "shielded" from the racism that does exist in this country.Are these the same Asians that even if they are in areas of 'diversity' or high-white concentrations, still almost exclusively socialize and have friends of their own respective ethnic groups ? Are these the same Asians that haven't finished college, and haven't gotten jobs in the 'real world' ? Are these the same Asians if they have gotten jobs in the workforce, then they probably got jobs because of connections from their ethnic community and probably almost exclusively socialize with ethnic/racial based subgroups in their own workplace ?

[SunWuKong]

Are these the same Asians that even if they are in areas of 'diversity' or high-white concentrations, still almost exclusively socialize and have friends of their own respective ethnic groups ? Are these the same Asians that haven't finished college, and haven't gotten jobs in the 'real world' ? Are these the same Asians if they have gotten jobs in the workforce, then they probably got jobs because of connections from their ethnic community and probably almost exclusively socialize with ethnic/racial based subgroups in their own workplace ?

don't know.

[Kuchana]

what i mean is that it seems that some Asians who grew up in a white suburban neighborhood say that they haven't experienced much racism. so in that sense, they are "shielded" from the racism that does exist in this country.

i find that to be false. i experienced quite the opposite.

[SunWuKong]

i find that to be false. i experienced quite the opposite.

which is why i said this in an earlier post on this thread:

you know what's interesting? some Asian Americans who grew up with white people seem to have had been pretty shielded from racism, and then there are others who grew up with white people but were exposed to quite a bit of racism from them. i personally have had received racism from white people when i was surrounded by them. but that doesn't mean i don't have white friends either.

[hooligan]

which is why i said this in an earlier post on this thread:
i thought you implied something differently, that asian kids growing up in a white world were shielded because they grew up in a world that accepted them.

i think you cleared that up later when you said that they didn't know they were experiencing white racism.

[SunWuKong]

i think you cleared that up later when you said that they didn't know they were experiencing white racism.

well, maybe they really were lucky enough to not experience racism from white people. i mean, personally, the majority of white people i know are very careful, maybe sometimes too careful, to not discriminate based on race. sometimes they go out of their way so much that it's annoying because they won't even recognise simple racial difference. racial difference is like a hush hush sensitive topic for them. the people whom i experienced racism from are still very small in number compared to the number of people that aren't, at least overtly, racist.

[hooligan]

well, maybe they really were lucky enough to not experience racism from white people. i mean, personally, the majority of white people i know are very careful, maybe sometimes too careful, to not discriminate based on race. sometimes they go out of their way so much that it's annoying because they won't even recognise simple racial difference. racial difference is like a hush hush sensitive topic for them. the people whom i experienced racism from are still very small in number.
maybe it wasn't so obvious as them calling you a chink. looking back on the relationships that I had during high school and junior high, i can racialize every single one. how many times can you go through school with your white, latino, african american peers and have them say that you don't need to study because you're naturally smart. have them crack jokes at chinese people thinking it's ok.

i think a lot of racism is subtle, you're right though, it's all too hush,hush now days. too many people think it's something that happens in the back country of arkansas or something, when in actuality its all around you. : \

[lethal]

you know what's funny? after leaving high school i haven't had a close white friend my four years at ucla. i guess after 18 years of having white friends i'm starting to get acquianted with the asians more. kind of like yours [situation], but different. : \

That's me too.

Except after college, I've made a few non-Asian friends. In the 5 years since college...but I'd still say the majority of my friends are Asian.

[SunWuKong]

maybe it wasn't so obvious as them calling you a chink. looking back on the relationships that I had during high school and junior high, i can racialize every single one. how many times can you go through school with your white, latino, african american peers and have them say that you don't need to study because you're naturally smart. have them crack jokes at chinese people thinking it's ok.

hmm... actually most of my non-Asian friends back in high school or junior high don't crack Asian jokes. at least they didn't do it around me. and they think i'm smart because, well, i did do really well in my high school and junior high school. and i'm not so sure i'd call those instances of racism. more like ignorance and stupidity in my opinion.

the kind of racism i'm talking about is guys calling me a chink, telling me to go back to China, etc etc.

[hooligan]

hmm... actually most of my non-Asian friends back in high school or junior high don't crack Asian jokes. at least they didn't do it around me. and they think i'm smart because, well, i did do really well in my high school and junior high school. and i'm not so sure i'd call those instances of racism. more like ignorance and stupidity in my opinion.

the kind of racism i'm talking about is guys calling me a chink, telling me to go back to China, etc etc.
i guess we grew up in different parts then. i had a lot of guys tell me to translate unintelligible phrases of noises. making fun of my eyes and my nose to a point. i guess, i grew up among a bunch of racist bastards then.

[SunWuKong]

i guess we grew up in different parts then. i had a lot of guys tell me to translate unintelligible phrases of noises. making fun of my eyes and my nose to a point. i guess, i grew up among a bunch of racist bastards then.

oh i had that, too. and yeah, i consider those people racists. but that's different from thinking that i'm smart because i'm Asian or making Asian jokes like "a Chinese guy walks into a bar", right?

[hooligan]

oh i had that, too. and yeah, i consider those people racists. but that's different from thinking that i'm smart because i'm Asian or making Asian jokes like "a Chinese guy walks into a bar", right?
maybe we just have different views of racism. i think what i experienced amounted to racism, but i can see where that comes from ignorance and stupidity.

[Craig]

the kind of racism i'm talking about is guys calling me a chink, telling me to go back to China, etc etc.You don't get this at work ? Especially considering your location and the industry (US government/military/etc.) that you are in.

[nola]

Yeah I had about three instances of overt racism growing up in the midwest. The rest was more subtle.

[SunWuKong]

You don't get this at work ? Especially considering your location and the industry (US government/military/etc.) that you are in.

no i don't get this at work. my project has a pretty diverse mix of people. and i'd say that at least 1/3rd or maybe half of the employees in my building are actually foreign-born. but i'm not working directly in government. i'm a subcontractor and the project is prime contracted out to IBM. so it's really an IBM project, and their customer is US Customs.

and Northern Virginia is a pretty liberal/diverse area. (but it becomes less so the further west you go, as in, toward West Virginia...) it's not like the rest of Virginia where it's much more conservative. the only time i really get stuff like being called a chink, is when i go to an area that is mostly white people.