Speaking on behalf of Asians everywhere ...

[>:^|]

One of the criticisms I often hear from non-Asians when I bring up issues of racism, stereotyping or discrimination is that "you cannot speak for the entire group." In fact, people often bring up their "Asian friends" who disagree with me. And these arguments were brought up in recent issues discussed on yellowworld.

Christian Smith, in response to criticism of his article decrying the response to the "I Hate Cats" cartoon as "cultural hyper-sensitivity," writes:

I showed/sent the joke to 42 of my Asian friends and NOT ONE of them were offended. Some didn't think it was funny and some did but none thought it was racist.

http://www.louisvillecardinal.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/04/3fa76a846fb34
here's the link to the yw thread: http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=9953

And in response to criticism of "Rickshaw Rally" (a vacation bible school theme incorporating stereotypical "Oriental" imagery), Rob Phillips, LifeWay's corporate communications director, states:

While a small number of people have questioned the use of symbols like rickshaws, umbrellas and kites, saying they are stereotypical of Asian culture, no one group speaks for all Asians.

http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/ is the Lifeway site
Ethics Daily has coverage of this issue: http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=3418
here's the link to the yw thread: http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=9160

Okay, I know I don't speak for all Asians everywhere. And I even know that some of us don't agree on all topics. How weird, we're all individuals. But I guess I would really like to know a way to address these sorts of arguments. My thought is that while I may not speak for all Asians, non-Asians certainly don't speak for me, either. And that people who denounce others as "whiners" (like Christian Smith) are even bigger whiners--why, they're whining about whining! :dry:

Also, do you really think Christian Smith has 42 Asian friends who don't think this was racist? And that Lifeway heard "dozens of positive responses from Asian Americans" for every criticism received?

[nonamerasian]

I think that is something all minorities battle. . .But, it is something minorities also do.

Just respond that not everyone sharing similar features think monolithically.

[kitty]

oh my god that was a disturbing article, but the feedback was even more disturbing.

[SunWuKong]

dumb white boy

[Made in China]

Whenever Racism is brought up, Asians are left out.

its always. Whiteys and Blackeys this, Whiteys and Blackeys That. Wheres the Asianeys?

I kinda am happy that asians are left out of this racism conversation.

[AngryABCGirl]

I kinda am happy that asians are left out of this racism conversation.


That disturbs me because we are indeed victims of the racial constructs in America, and if we don't admit that first, we cannot establish a dialogue and therefore never have a voice.

[Tao]

i've always found it funny when white people from suburban areas don't understand the "hyper sensitivity" of minorities, and instead try to "help" us by spewing their "enlightened" thoughts in hopes that we would one day wake up from this blame everyone but ourselves syndrome, and show us that no one is actually out to get us and everything's all in our heads....yeah i find that to be hilarious.

[Made in China]

have you noticed that white people gets "mad" when black people call them crackers and its acceptable, yet if its the other way around, it isnt.

they act like they WANT to make fun of black people!

[nonamerasian]

have you noticed that white people gets "mad" when black people call them crackers and its acceptable, yet if its the other way around, it isnt.

they act like they WANT to make fun of black people!

From my personal interactions, I haven't noticed that it was acceptable for Blacks to call Whites "crackers."

The only time I've seen it as particially acceptable was between Whites a while ago when it briefly became popular amongst some.

. . .I have, however, heard that it was acceptable to call Whites crackers and unacceptable to call Blacks nigger during debates on messageboards, but that is something I have yet to personally witness.

The "proof" statement is usually that so-and-so called me a cracker and nothing happened to her followed by the question: What if I called them a nigger?

My response has been about the same as yours: "You want permission to be a fellow racist?"

[BeTheReds]

i've always found it funny when white people from suburban areas don't understand the "hyper sensitivity" of minorities, and instead try to "help" us by spewing their "enlightened" thoughts in hopes that we would one day wake up from this blame everyone but ourselves syndrome, and show us that no one is actually out to get us and everything's all in our heads....yeah i find that to be hilarious.


Who is out to get us?

[AngryABCGirl]

Who is out to get us?
The rabid monkeys in my closet.

[Tao]

Who is out to get us?
people who are racist

[Emperor_Mike]

The rabid monkeys in my closet.

Rabid monkeys? I think there's a portal to another dimension in mine. Like Narnia! :blink:

[kasia]

i don't think we need to assert that each and every asian american would find a certain matter racist in order for it to be so. surely, there were blacks who didn't think that slavery was that bad or even unjust - but that didn't change the truth of it.

[>:^|]

i don't think we need to assert that each and every asian american would find a certain matter racist in order for it to be so. surely, there were blacks who didn't think that slavery was that bad or even unjust - but that didn't change the truth of it.

Well, here's my problem.

I know that I don't speak for all Asians. But I speak for myself. And often I know that other Asians share my perspective.

But what then is the qualifier for what is "racist"?

It seems that people who want to defend their own racism argue that they know tons of other Asians that don't think the issue is racist. Although I'm skeptical that Christian Smith even knows 42 Asians, or that dozens of Asians have written to Lifeway to support "Rickshaw Rally," how does one respond to this? I get the feeling that these people want a totally uniform consensus.

[kasia]

Well, here's my problem.

I know that I don't speak for all Asians. But I speak for myself. And often I know that other Asians share my perspective.

But what then is the qualifier for what is "racist"?

It seems that people who want to defend their own racism argue that they know tons of other Asians that don't think the issue is racist. Although I'm skeptical that Christian Smith even knows 42 Asians, or that dozens of Asians have written to Lifeway to support "Rickshaw Rally," how does one respond to this? I get the feeling that these people want a totally uniform consensus.

i hear you. and then we waste our time and frustration trying to convince the rest of the group rather than actually dealing with the issue at hand.

surely, though, whether or not something is racist does not require a unanimous vote. and also - i believe the question of whether something is racist is a question of fact, not opinion. some people, then, are just wrong.

[kimpossible]

When I read or hear something like "I checked with friends and associates of X ethnicity before I went ahead with my idea," to me it registers that the originator of the idea is aware that the concept or expression is racist but not offensive. Like the dude who did the David & Goliath shirts with Sum Dum Guy... Todd?

He knew what his concepts were racist; his shirts featured an ethnic caricature with exaggerated features meant to inspire ridicule to people not of that ethnicity, paired with words and concepts based uneducated interpretations of Chinese language to form lame English homonym jokes.

His defense? He claimed he had a Chinese girlfriend and this girlfriend did not register offense at his racist concepts, rendering it a joke and not an offense as far as he was concerned. If these people who made racist jokes and caricatures were not aware of the racist content of their expressions, they would not have made an effort to seek out approval from their Asian friends to assure them that no offense was registered in their product or cartoon.

[nonamerasian]

When I read or hear something like "I checked with friends and associates of X ethnicity before I went ahead with my idea," to me it registers that the originator of the idea is aware that the concept or expression is racist but not offensive.

I generally like it when people do that. Before they do something, unsure of whether it could be considered offensive, take a quick survey of those around.

Honestly, I'd do the same to try as best as I could to get a feel of whether something is offensive amongst many Xs, is offensiveness largely determined by geographic origin, age, class, etc.

Those surveyed should try to add that they don't represent everyone, but I think it is better than someone just saying, "I don't care what you people think," or proclaiming objection to their actions as simply "P.C. run amok."

It's cool so long as they don't use the opinions of those surveyed as the Biblical word or whatever.

They should be cool with the attitude that so-and-so may have said that they don't find it offensive, but I do.

[ric 3]

i hear you. and then we waste our time and frustration trying to convince the rest of the group rather than actually dealing with the issue at hand.

surely, though, whether or not something is racist does not require a unanimous vote. and also - i believe the question of whether something is racist is a question of fact, not opinion. some people, then, are just wrong.


Dealing with issues entails that we edcaute those who act/carry out racist views/feelings/actions against asians. So daeling with racist pricks is part of job

something that is consider or define as "racist" is a subjective notion/concept . There is no such thig as philosophical wise as concept of right or wrong but merely relative perspectives. Its not overwhemling unanimous view that something can be view as racist if everyone have different sets of views/philosphy/values/life experiences that would allow someone to set/built ones threshold towars soemthing that can be viewed as racist theme/actions

[kasia]

Dealing with issues entails that we edcaute those who act/carry out racist views/feelings/actions against asians. So daeling with racist pricks is part of job

something that is consider or define as "racist" is a subjective notion/concept . There is no such thig as philosophical wise as concept of right or wrong but merely relative perspectives. Its not overwhemling unanimous view that something can be view as racist if everyone have different sets of views/philosphy/values/life experiences that would allow someone to set/built ones threshold towars soemthing that can be viewed as racist theme/actions


i believe it is objective. for example, the murder of vincent chin was a hate crime. some people may opine that it was simply a bar fight. i don't agree that it is simply my opinion that was a hate crime and their opinion that it was not. rather, i believe that they're plain wrong and don't understand the concept of racism, discrimination, or the definition of a hate crime.

[>:^|]

I generally like it when people do that. Before they do something, unsure of whether it could be considered offensive, take a quick survey of those around.

Honestly, I'd do the same to try as best as I could to get a feel of whether something is offensive amongst many Xs, is offensiveness largely determined by geographic origin, age, class, etc.


So how many Xs do we need before making this determination?

I suspect, like HelloHapa, that people often know deep down that something is racist or offensive or both. What I don't understand is how somebody could know something is racist but not consider it offensive?

I guess I also want some super cogent, well-articulated way of defeating these types of arguments. If that's not asking for too much. ;)

edited to add some more questions. questions! i got questions!

[nonamerasian]

You can’t ask all of the Xs you personally know to know about every X (unless there are very few Xs), however, it is a good starting ground to get a feel of how some Xs think.

Not always would a person know the answer. If I ask an offensiveness question to a group of Xs, I most likely don’t know the answer or am looking for affirmation when I think I know.

I’m not talking about asking a question as to whether something racist is offensive because I don’t think I’ve asked or received that type of question. Just a general offensiveness question. . .Is this offensive or is it not type of questions.

I think it would be more offensive for a person not to give any thought to how the Xs feel than to ask.

*I don’t know any generic pithy comebacks.