Is the term "fob" offensive?

[achtungbaby]

Is anyone offended by this term?

[amietron]

How do you pronounce 'fob'?
Like Bob with an F, right?
I have this friend in NYC who insists that its 'fobe'.
Is it just my friend? Or is it an east coast thing?

No, I don't take it offensively. It was actually my nickname for some 3-4 years, through middle school and now HS from a couple of my friends. I can understand how someone could feel offended by it though. Fresh Off the Boat. It makes you feel more immigrant-ish, or lesser. Degrading?

[OHTotoro]

I haven't heard that word in a while. Since High school actually. I wonder if it's just used more during middle school and high school.

I think it is offensive because my experience with this word was at a time when everybody catergorized everybody else. It hurts to be labeled at all because it confines that person.

It could be different, though, in the way it's said to someone. Like maybe jokingly or affectionately to Amietron.

Maybe it's become like the N word except not as notorious?

[ChinaLama]

I always pronounce it F.O.B. cuz that has a better kick than "fob," which sounds like a bad haircut.


and of course i don't find it offensive, because I HATE FOREIGNERS! Damn FOB ppl,. go back to China!

oh, wait, I'm from China....

oops, I retract my previous statement.

[NotAsian]

[quote:422f260fc5="achtungbaby"]Is anyone offended by this term?[/quote:422f260fc5]

What does it mean?

[OHTotoro]

Fresh off the Boat. Like immigrant. like what Amietron said about 2 posts up? 3 posts up?

[NotAsian]

[quote:bf64227289="OHTotoro"]Fresh off the Boat. Like immigrant. like what Amietron said about 2 posts up? 3 posts up?[/quote:bf64227289]

Ok thanks ^_^ Well I voted yes, becuase it sounds like the sort of thing which would be likely to be used in a derogatory way. You can just tell that a certain type of person would use that particular expression...

[kasia]

i've been told that many immigrants prefer "FOP" because they came here by plane, not boat. only a few actually come by boat and they're illegal, no?

[ChinaLama]

Well, Vietnamese & Cuban boat ppl are probably refugees, so they're not illegal.

FOP is TECHNICALLY correct but it doesn't have the same cool image as FOB. FOP is kinda boring...sounds like some awkward tourists or something. :wink:

[PingPong]

I'm pretty much neutral----In the past i've heard FOB being used amongst friends in a jokingly manner. It can be humorous, but also can be hurtful if said directly to someone.

To be honest, I haven't heard the word since middle school or high school. I guess it was a way of giving a label to a person or group that you would see everyday. Just like the brains, smokers, deathrockers (who always wore black), jocks, and the G-wingers.

[Arex]

Well, the only people who might be offended by the term are the DAMN FOBs so who gives a shit?? Just kidding. I think the best people to ask are the FOBs since they're the ones being categorized. I can definitely see how someone might find the term offensive as the term does have the effect of "making foreign" or marginalizing a person or group of people. Most often, I hear the term used to indicate that someone speaks with an accent or dresses in a funky manner. Then again, I've known many a FOB to take pride in their FOBiness. Hmmm...

Alex

[achtungbaby]

Is anyone offended by this term?

[SunWuKong]

i don't think so. but i'm not sure if i'm in the position to say, because i don't really qualify as a fob even though i was not born in the states.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

US born and I lived in US since I was six, so 15 years now. but ABCs still mistake me for a FOB cuz I'll speak foreign languages in public with my friends. whatever, words aren't offensive, it's just the way they're used. I don't really object if someone uses it to describe me (e.g. "Yeah, the other day I hung out with Eric and a bunch of the other FOBs"), unless they're implying that being a FOB is somehow beneath them ("Man do you gotta act so fobby? we're in public!")



<!--EDIT|AliBabaIncorporated|Aug 7 2002, 10:28 AM-->

[artsfartsyjanet]

i'm born and raised in the US. I think the acronym has the potential to be offensive because it denotes a person who isn't assimilated into this country as a lesser /inferior individual. Sometimes, it offends me because my whole family can be considered FOBs. So, in a way, I think it's insulting. This topic reminds me of "is it offensive to say the word 'chink' to your fellow asian brothers and sisers?" Anyway, I have a couple of friends who use "FOB" and it's always in a negative context. Kinda annoying actually.

[deez nuts]

I don't think it's offensive. It's funny because I have a Haitian co-worker and they use that term too.

But I can see how an asian can be offended by the term if they haven't assimilated or maybe if a white person called an asian a FOB. Kinda like how black people use the "n" word or how asians call each other chinks or coolies amongst each other. I personally won't be offended, because if you dish it you have to be able to take it. Amongst my ethnically diverse friends we throw around the "c" word and the "n" word all the time, but I can definitely see how an outsider would be offended if they were to listen in on our conversations.

[kasia]

i think this term was more offensive back in the day. i used to use this term freely until my uncles and my dad told me that they found it offensive b/c it was used to put them down during their high school years. usually ABC's would use be the ones calling them that.

i guess it was less acceptable to be "asian" back them--assimilation was cool and self-hatred was prevalent. today, i kinda use the term fob in an endearing sort of way.

[SunWuKong]

who wants to be a fobionaire? (http://www.fobionaire.com/Fobionair.html)



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Aug 8 2002, 02:46 PM-->

[nonamerasian]

How widely is the term fob used?

I didn’t learn it until fairly recently when on a messageboard, some guy was ranting about discrimination he had faced and said that he was tired of being called a fob.

I wrote back asking something like, why are people calling you one of those pocket watch-thingamagigs and why should you be offended by this.

Afterwards people started responding saying similar things and then he had to break it down for us “idiots.”

I never heard of it before then, but it must be old or the term would be fop or foa.

I don’t know its offensiveness. I still haven’t seen it used offline.

[LCY]

I voted yes. I hear people (mostly Asian American people) use it often, usually to put down other Asians because they're unassimilated or acting too Asian. Sometimes it can be used jokingly amongst ourselves, but usually it's meant as an insult.

[moschikat]

Only after getting yelled at by my ex for saying "Oh, I like all foreign accents - you and your cute fobby one too!" . . . . did I find out what it meant, and that people with insecurities or no sense of humor about themselves would get offended.

I've always used the term pill fob, as in the little carrying case for pills (or uppers, or downers . . . wait, they're the same thing anyway . . . )

:rolleyes:

[sunyang]

I don't think it's offensive. The kids at my (Korean) church use it - the Korean-American kids use it in a joking manner directed at the Korean kids who have been here for, roughly, less than one year. But they never say it to their faces - only behind their backs. And it's only the high-schoolers who use it.

[shy]

because of the negative connotation that was received with this word in my area while growing up, me and my friends have aways thought this term to be offensive.

[Ogumo]

How many years have to go by before people stop saying I am a fob?

[YuheiCarreau]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ogumo+Aug 19 2003, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ogumo @ Aug 19 2003, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How many years have to go by before people stop saying I am a fob? [/b][/quote]
No set amount of time. FOB is a state of mind as much as anything else; if you only hang out with other Japanese, speak Japanese almost all the time, you can stay FOB for decades. Sorta like some of the westerners in Tokyo who live there for 10 years without learning much Japanese.

[Ogumo]

<!--QuoteBegin-YuheiCarreau+Aug 19 2003, 12:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Aug 19 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No set amount of time. FOB is a state of mind as much as anything else; if you only hang out with other Japanese, speak Japanese almost all the time, you can stay FOB for decades. Sorta like some of the westerners in Tokyo who live there for 10 years without learning much Japanese. [/b][/quote]
I see. Well I do not hang around many japanese here. I do but most of the ones that I am around are not japanese. Mosty chinese and koreans..and I speak english more than japanese because I speak english when I am around non japanese which is almost all the time now. So I suppose I am no longer a fob.

[Chester]

<!--QuoteBegin-ChinaLama+May 22 2002, 02:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChinaLama @ May 22 2002, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, Vietnamese & Cuban boat ppl are probably refugees, so they're not illegal.

FOP is TECHNICALLY correct but it doesn't have the same cool image as FOB. FOP is kinda boring...sounds like some awkward tourists or something. :wink: [/b][/quote]
It sounds as if there are plane-loads of immigrants landing at the airport, all decked out in Edwardian splendor.

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ogumo+Aug 19 2003, 04:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ogumo @ Aug 19 2003, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I see. Well I do not hang around many japanese here. I do but most of the ones that I am around are not japanese. Mosty chinese and koreans..and I speak english more than japanese because I speak english when I am around non japanese which is almost all the time now. So I suppose I am no longer a fob. [/b][/quote]
well it's also about how culturally Japanese vs. culturally American you are.
being a fob is good. don't ever change.

[tommyhtown]

<!--QuoteBegin-sunyang+Aug 19 2003, 04:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sunyang @ Aug 19 2003, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think it's offensive. The kids at my (Korean) church use it - the Korean-American kids use it in a joking manner directed at the Korean kids who have been here for, roughly, less than one year. But they never say it to their faces - only behind their backs. And it's only the high-schoolers who use it. [/b][/quote]
May be that is why it's offensive? :huh:

[DragonKnight]

I think its offensive...but I use it nonetheless. :P

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I think it's just about as offensive as the words 'banana', 'Twinkie', or 'whitewashed' sometimes used to refer to certain ABC's and other Asian Americans, which I personally don't find offensive. Maybe the degree of offensiveness in this case is simply dependent upon the perception of the individual on the receiving end.

[Ogumo]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Aug 19 2003, 01:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Aug 19 2003, 01:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well it's also about how culturally Japanese vs. culturally American you are.
being a fob is good. don't ever change. [/b][/quote]
I still believe that I am more japanese much more japanese than I am american. That will not change. (I hope).

[AltimaGTR]

It doesn't bother me. Seeing as how I'm from Taiwan, being called an FOB seems like a compliment to me, and I agree with OHTotoro with the fact that it was mostly used in middle school and high school. I rarely hear that term nowadays.

[achtungbaby]

this is kasia. glitch in system...anyhow:


couldn't it just be because his grandparents are *old* and not because they're traditional? older people are fussier.

i also always thought that american parents sheltered their kids more. i grew up in a completely white neighborhood, so it was easy for me to compare my upbringing with that of my peers. for the most part, my parents and their "fobby" friends were very lenient and let us do whatever we wanted. all we had to do was ask permission to do something while they busy playing mahjong.

sure, there were kids that we came across who had fussy parents - but we never concluded that their parents were "fobby" - we just wrote them off as "dorky" and begged our parents never to invite their dorky family over again.

it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever people assert that "fobby" parents act a certain way. some of my parents friends who grew up here had that mentality - that they were more assimilated and therefore were "cooler" parents for their kids. it showed in their kid's attitudes, too. they were a bit arrogant because their parents were americanized, sympathetic that we had parents that talked loudly in Chinese, and, overall, just had poor manners and were white-washed.

i'm not sure if you noticed, but a lot of your posts read like this: "a fobby parent would have done [this], but i, being a cooler americanized parent, did [this]." that's just not cool. you don't want to teach your kid how to stereotype at such an early age, do you?

[deez nuts]

seeing you using AB's SN and seeing his avatar but knowing it's you on the other side of the computer makes my heart flutter.

:wub:

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever people assert that "fobby" parents act a certain way. some of my parents friends who grew up here had that mentality - that they were more assimilated and therefore were "cooler" parents for their kids. it showed in their kid's attitudes, too. they were a bit arrogant because their parents were americanized, sympathetic that we had parents that talked loudly in Chinese, and, overall, just had poor manners and were white-washed.
Kasia, I apologize if I offended you. I think you've had bad experiences with Americanized parents as I have had bad experiences with FOBBY parents.

I've always felt the FOBBY parents and their kids were the arrogant ones. They always implied in subtle mind games that they were superior, their language skills, PhDs and their kid's grades made them better despite their total lack of American social graces or any ability outside an academic field. They were not well rounded.

I think the perception is the problem. ABCs and Chinese born have always viewed each other negatively for each other's Americanized or FOBBY traits. I got to tell you, dorky parents seem to fit the bill as FOBBY. FOB is a stereotype so if you're going to stereotype FOBBY people they do act in certain ways. What is your definition of a FOB?

i'm not sure if you noticed, but a lot of your posts read like this: "a fobby parent would have done [this], but i, being a cooler americanized parent, did [this]." that's just not cool. you don't want to teach your kid how to stereotype at such an early age, do you?
I don't see how any of my posts implied this. Something obviously offends you to imply this, probably those negative experiences.

[kasia]

Kasia, I apologize if I offended you. I think you've had bad experiences with Americanized parents as I have had bad experiences with FOBBY parents.

I've always felt the FOBBY parents and their kids were the arrogant ones. They always implied in subtle mind games that they were superior, their language skills, PhDs and their kid's grades made them better despite their total lack of American social graces or any ability outside an academic field. They were not well rounded.

I think the perception is the problem. ABCs and Chinese born have always viewed each other negatively for each other's Americanized or FOBBY traits. I got to tell you, dorky parents seem to fit the bill as FOBBY. FOB is a stereotype so if you're going to stereotype FOBBY people they do act in certain ways. What is your definition of a FOB?

I don't see how any of my posts implied this. Something obviously offends you to imply this, probably those negative experiences.

actually, that isn't correct. i've grown up observing many americanized parents - my dad is americanized to an extent - he was here since he was 12. i specifically said, in my last post, that i was annoyed by americanized parents who believed they were better parents by virtue of the fact that they have become assimilated into the american culture. (take note - by using the word 'assimilation', i was paying them no compliment at all.) thus, i was not making a generalization to all americanized parents. after all, i'm going to be one.

and you are correct. some immigrant parents can be arrogant - believing that their school system is so much better than ours, etc. etc. but keep in mind, not all of them are like that, and it is unfair to generalize. it sounds like you've had some negative experiences with more traditional parents, but i would reiterate, it is completely unfair to believe that all or even most of them are the same. if we want to break barriers between the two groups - abc's and fobs, why would we continue to stereotype one another?

my reaction to your comments had nothing to do with my own personal experiences. i just have an adversion to stereotypes and, in a way, find the term 'fob' to be deragatory - and i think you just used it one time too many.

check it out:

Funny, his best friend is Vietnamese but he thinks girls are icky. His parents are more traditional.

Of course the average FOBBY parent would have gone nuts too.

I love to make fun of FOBBY parents for their ridiculous rules (like mine).

Hmm, do I react like my FOBBY parents would (and probably scar them for life thinking girls are icky) or just let it go.

I've always felt the FOBBY parents and their kids were the arrogant ones.

LOL, my mom did that to my oldest cousin so many times and my mom would always pick the dorkiest FOBs.

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

I use FOB as a humorous stereotype like Jook Sing. Not all non-American born are FOBBY just as not all ABCs are Jook Sing or Bananas. So my use of FOB is not generalizing all non-American born as having those characteristics. FOB is the stereotype itself of certain traits.

Think of it this way, if I made fun of Jook Sings or Bananas by naming their traits am I really generalizing all ABCs? I'm not of course. The use of FOB does not generalize non-American born unless you are literally using it to say they are fresh off the boat.

So if I call my ABC friends FOBBY is that generalizing non-American born or just making fun of his traits? If an ABC acts completely traditional we'd call him FOBBY. If an immigrant acts like a Banana, well he's a Banana.

I'm sorry it offends you but I just find humor in the tension between less traditional ABCs and more traditional Chinese (immigrant and ABC).

[ChinaLama]

you ABCs and FOBs both suck. 1.5 all the way!

[kasia]

I use FOB as a humorous stereotype like Jook Sing. Not all non-American born are FOBBY just as not all ABCs are Jook Sing or Bananas. So my use of FOB is not generalizing all non-American born as having those characteristics. FOB is the stereotype itself of certain traits.

Think of it this way, if I made fun of Jook Sings or Bananas by naming their traits am I really generalizing all ABCs? I'm not of course. The use of FOB does not generalize non-American born unless you are literally using it to say they are fresh off the boat.

So if I call my ABC friends FOBBY is that generalizing non-American born or just making fun of his traits? If an ABC acts completely traditional we'd call him FOBBY. If an immigrant acts like a Banana, well he's a Banana.

I'm sorry it offends you but I just find humor in the tension between less traditional ABCs and more traditional Chinese (immigrant and ABC).

that kinda sounds to me like the argument, "when i use the word nigger, i'm only referring to those rude and lazy blacks that don't contribute to society. not the good black people."

and all abc's are jook sings. and all immigrants are fobs. we can't just change the vocabulary and expect people not to find it offensive.

[Ogumo]

you ABCs and FOBs both suck. 1.5 all the way!

HEY! Watch your damn mouth before you insult immigrants again! ^_^

[kasia]

I use FOB as a humorous stereotype like Jook Sing. Not all non-American born are FOBBY just as not all ABCs are Jook Sing or Bananas. So my use of FOB is not generalizing all non-American born as having those characteristics. FOB is the stereotype itself of certain traits.

Think of it this way, if I made fun of Jook Sings or Bananas by naming their traits am I really generalizing all ABCs? I'm not of course. The use of FOB does not generalize non-American born unless you are literally using it to say they are fresh off the boat.

So if I call my ABC friends FOBBY is that generalizing non-American born or just making fun of his traits? If an ABC acts completely traditional we'd call him FOBBY. If an immigrant acts like a Banana, well he's a Banana.

I'm sorry it offends you but I just find humor in the tension between less traditional ABCs and more traditional Chinese (immigrant and ABC).

let's continue this debate here:

Is the term 'fob' offensive? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=15&highlight=term+fobby)

abc's vs. fobs (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=6961&highlight=fobs)

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

Quick perusal of those threads seems to have alot of opinions that FOB and Jook Sing are not derogatory though I think both of them are technically but in a mild sense, that is mild enough to be used humorously.

Calling someone FOB is not the same a calling someone a nigger or chink or gook. You call someone a chink you apply that to their entire race and it always been used as a racist epithet. FOB and Jook Sing are more like hill-billy and city slicker in one sense.

And I believe if an ABC spoke fluent Chinese that makes them not Jook Sing. And an immigrant who assimilates is no longer a FOB.

I think Jook Sing and FOB are viewed more as adjectives than nouns sometimes. They describe things and therefore a person can be FOBBY and a Banana at the same time.

[ChinaLama]

HEY! Watch your damn mouth before you insult immigrants again! ^_^

1.5 are immigrants. don't they teach you that in Engrish class? ;)

[kasia]

Quick perusal of those threads seems to have alot of opinions that FOB and Jook Sing are not derogatory though I think both of them are technically but in a mild sense, that is mild enough to be used humorously.

Calling someone FOB is not the same a calling someone a nigger or chink or gook. You call someone a chink you apply that to their entire race and it always been used as a racist epithet. FOB and Jook Sing are more like hill-billy and city slicker in one sense.

And I believe if an ABC spoke fluent Chinese that makes them not Jook Sing. And an immigrant who assimilates is no longer a FOB.

I think Jook Sing and FOB are viewed more as adjectives than nouns sometimes. They describe things and therefore a person can be FOBBY and a Banana at the same time.


you really should reread the threads. i think arex said it best - we're really not in a position to determine whether the term 'fob' is offensive because we aren't fobs. and as i - and others - have stated in the thread, we've been told by other immigrants that they have had their feelings hurt when the term was directed at them. also, another member wrote that it depends on the context in which the term is used. in yours, it was used only in a deragatory manner.

do you speak cantonese? cantonese people refer to all abc's as jook sings - whether they are fluent in cantonese and are completely traditional or not. it doesn't matter. they don't ever say, 'oh this abc is a jook sing, but you're not.' the term 'jook sing' refers to ALL abc's. and we can't just change that meaning of the word - as you proposed - to mean 'bridge between two cultures'. 'jook sing' is a phrase in cantonese, which means hollow or open-ended bamboo. the idea is that we are like hollow bamboos and bend whichever way - we can never stand firm. how can we take a phrase that means something in chinese and give it a different meaning? and given its present meaning, i despise the phrase 'jook sing' and most chinese people have disposed of it from their everyday vocabulary.

[SunWuKong]

And I believe if an ABC spoke fluent Chinese that makes them not Jook Sing. And an immigrant who assimilates is no longer a FOB.

no. johk sing refers to all American-born Chinese. it doesn't matter how fluent you are in Chinese, if you are born in the US, you are a johk sing. it's a reference to the fact that someone was born and raised in the US.

[Emperor_Mike]

1.5 are immigrants. don't they teach you that in Engrish class? ;)


Ooooo...Engrish.com is amusing.

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jook-sing
This is where I found a definition for Jook Sing. Not sure of the source but I took it to mean not just ABCs.

Jook-sing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jook-sing (Cantonese for 竹升 penkyamp: Zok1 senk1), is a pejorative term used in the United States and Canada to describe Westernized East Asians, particularly Chinese, who have lost or "denied themselves" their Asian heritage. Jook-sing usually refer to citizens or long term residents of a Western nation who are descendants of immigrant families.

However, some are Asian international students who have spent an extended amount of time in Western societies. "Banana kids" (Heong1 ziu1 zay2) is typically more jocular and trendy lingo to describe acculturated youth.

"ABC" (from "American-born Chinese") and "CBC" ("Canadian-born Chinese") are more generic terms without negative implications completely.


Etymology
"Jook-sing" literally means "A grain-measuring container made of bamboo". This refers to the fact that bamboos are hollow and compartmentalized, thus water poured in one end does not flow out the other end. The metaphor is that "jook-sings" are not part of either culture. Some so labeled do not consider the term literal and hence, not derogatory, though many do. An example of a jook-sing would be senk1 daw2 (升斗)

"Banana" is an alternative to "jook-sing" with the same basic connotation. The metaphor is that the person is yellow on the outside but white on the inside. (Some describe the skin colour of the Chinese as yellow.)


Values and cultures
"Jook-sing" usually consider China as the mere cause of their appearance and an abstraction possessed by their parents or ancestors. They may know slightly more about traditional Chinese culture, especially the customs, than many non-Asians, but they still consider themselves to be more Western.

Some praise the "jook-sing" for their great pride and patriotism of their birth country. However, some first-generations see them as denying themselves their identity and shamed by the traditions of their families.

Oftentimes, the denial of Chinese-ness is evident in a common childhood fantasy to be born White (or have White parents or siblings) to avoid teasing and name-calling of other non-Chinese children in neighbourhoods and schools. However, with growth towards adulthood, this is usually reconciled with the beginning of an acceptance and embrace of their heritage.

Some "jook-sing" adults, however, sever ties with families and Chinese communities, informally, and mingle only with non-Chinese, mostly Caucasian. They typically view Chinese heritage as a setback to prominent social status.


Related terms
"Egg" is a rarely used term, occasionally pejorative, for the symmetric opposite situation: A Caucasian who has acquired Asian culture.

"FOB" is a pejorative acronym for "Fresh off the Boat" used by ABCs/CBCs to describe recent immigrants. Typically, the recent immigrant doesn't understand the term "FOB" (as they are not fluent in English) and thus don't know when they are being insulted. Conversely ABCs/CBCs typically do understand the term "jook-sing".

[kasia]

"FOB" is a pejorative acronym for "Fresh off the Boat" used by ABCs/CBCs to describe recent immigrants. Typically, the recent immigrant doesn't understand the term "FOB" (as they are not fluent in English) and thus don't know when they are being insulted.

wow, who're they kidding? ask any random guy off the street in monterey park if he knows what fob means.

[SunWuKong]

PJS, with all due respect, you are the reason why people call ABCs johk sing.

why the hell would you look up a Cantonese slang in an English encyclopedia, instead of a Chinese or Cantonese source???

it means that you think like an American, only in a straight line, and you don't know how to make turns. you think straight, like how a bamboo shoots up in a straight line. that's what it means. it doesn't have anything to do with a container or being hollow. you posted the damn characters yourself.

竹升. 升 means rise.

just do a quick search on google. johk sing is used for Chinese born/raised overseas, usually in a Western country. you can have moved to the US when you were very young and if you're very Westernised, you can be called johk sing, too. but it is never the other way around. as long as you are born overseas, you are a johk sing.

this is laughable. just keep using your English encyclopedias for Chinese terms, 竹升仔.

[kasia]

PJS, with all due respect, you are the reason why people call ABCs johk sing.

why the hell would you look up a Cantonese slang in an English encyclopedia, instead of a Chinese or Cantonese source???

it means that you think like an American, only in a straight line, and you don't know how to make turns. you think straight, like how a bamboo shoots up in a straight line. that's what it means. it doesn't have anything to do with a container or being hollow. you posted the damn characters yourself.

actually, nowadays, "fu guai jooks" (bamboos) grow in all directions. take a walk in chinatown. they sell 'em on the street for really cheap.

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

PJS, with all due respect, you are the reason why people call ABCs johk sing.

why the hell would you look up a Cantonese slang in an English encyclopedia, instead of a Chinese or Cantonese source???

it means that you think like an American, only in a straight line, and you don't know how to make turns. you think straight, like how a bamboo shoots up in a straight line. that's what it means. it doesn't have anything to do with a container or being hollow. you posted the damn characters yourself.

竹升. 升 means rise.

just do a quick search on google. johk sing is used for Chinese born/raised overseas, usually in a Western country. you can have moved to the US when you were very young and if you're very Westernised, you can be called johk sing, too. but it is never the other way around. as long as you are born overseas, you are a johk sing.

this is laughable. just keep using your English encyclopedias for Chinese terms, 竹升仔.
You amuse me SWK. It's funny how I seem to irritate your sensibilities. Overseas born Chinese who live in America but feel superior to ABCs. They assume they know everything about you.

My parents and relatives could never describe Jook Sing the same. So you rag on me for finding doing an internet search and find a definition that disagrees with yours (and my parents, etc.) Isn't a Jook Sing by definition unable to search a Chinese encyclopedia or know what the characters mean, especially if it is a metaphor? ("I posted the damn characters", OMG I pasted the article and he is having a coniption over the characters.) Wikipedia is also a compilation from many sources, the Jook Sing entry was derived from a Chinese author.

And so as long as I am born overseas I am Jook Sing without redemption. Do you wonder why ABCs do not make an attempt to become more Chinese acculturated? Because no matter how good you become you will always be Jook Sing and inferior.

nevermind, man. do your own thing.
you're just reminding me why i don't want to raise any of my future kids to be ABCs, that's all.
Pretty much sums up your prejudices.

[kasia]

i think there are prejudices on both sides.

[SunWuKong]

And so as long as I am born overseas I am Jook Sing without redemption. Do you wonder why ABCs do not make an attempt to become more Chinese acculturated? Because no matter how good you become you will always be Jook Sing and inferior.

there are plenty of ABCs on this site, you don't see me saying shit to them just for being ABCs. i call you out because the things you post show a stereotypical johk sing attitude. growing up around white people and being Americanised doesn't give you an excuse for having a disrespectful attitude for anything or anybody that's traditional or fobby.

there are plenty of ABCs that aren't pompous. kasie is a great example.

kasie - isn't that right, my little fu guai johk?

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

there are plenty of ABCs on this site, you don't see me saying shit to them just for being ABCs. i call you out because the things you post show a stereotypical johk sing attitude. growing up around white people and being Americanised doesn't give you an excuse for having a disrespectful attitude for anything or anybody that's traditional or fobby.

there are plenty of ABCs that aren't pompous. kasie is a great example.

kasie - isn't that right, my little fu guai johk?
You're just uptight man. A little humor and you interpret that as disrespect.

[kasia]

You're just uptight man. A little humor and you interpret that as disrespect.

actually, i usually side with abc's against fobs - just because i'm an abc and hate being stereotyped. but i did feel, from your posts, that you were prejudiced against fobs.

and swk isn't really a fob. he's been here since he was a kid.

i think the reason why we take offense - at least me - lies here. my parents are immigrants. so are my grandparents. my aunts and uncles. i don't appreciate it when people characterize them in a negative way. i don't care if a person talks shit about his own parents. just talk about mine, you know?

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

A non-Asian who says he cannot tell Asians apart is prejudiced.

An Asian who says he cannot tell Asians apart is funny.

We're all Asians, all one "family" with lots of differences. Those differences can be humorous, we can laugh about our "family" in this way. My family is very traditional as you might guess and they have made many many mistakes that stem from their upbringing. My cousins and I laugh about it now, how we were not allowed to do this or how my mother made me take German in HS because she wanted me to be an engineer, etc.

You know, just before we got married my wife's mother gave her a very traditional speech on how she now belonged to my family and to obey me etc. We laughed about it. That was very FOBBY, traditional, whatever but it was very funny how out of touch she was.

If I say FOBBY parents I am generalizing to just that certain FOBBY trait and not to all immigrants as a whole. Yeah, I am making fun of some traits that stem from our traditions. Clash of cultures, take it as humor or let it eat you up inside.

[SunWuKong]

You're just uptight man. A little humor and you interpret that as disrespect.

actually it's not so much as anything specific you say about fobby people. your stereotypical johk sing attitude just annoys me.

[kasia]

A non-Asian who says he cannot tell Asians apart is prejudiced.

An Asian who says he cannot tell Asians apart is funny.

an asian who says he cannot tell asians apart is a white-washed idiot. why should he be given preferential treatment?

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

actually it's not so much as anything specific you say about fobby people. your stereotypical johk sing attitude just annoys me.
Good then we can coexist on this forum. :D

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

an asian who says he cannot tell asians apart is a white-washed idiot. why should he be given preferential treatment?
Kasia, I should have said if these two people are trying to make a joke, the non-Asian would get lambasted for being a racist but an Asian might actually get laughs. Point was an outsider making a inside joke would not be funny but an insider making the same joke could be funny.

Hmm something just occurred to me. You can tell Vietnamese from Chinese from Korean from Japanese etc. just from their looks???

I have met alot of Asians and skin color, nose, eyes and cheekbones - nothing is definitive. My hair cutter's family is all light-skinned Vietnamese with no Chinese blood but I would have bet they were Chinese. Maybe some Korean men I could tell from the sharp cheekbones but that's about it.

[kimpossible]

I'd feel comfortable using the term with AAs and 1.5ers, but not actual fobs themselves. It's not the term itself that I fear would be offensive but rather the underlying principle of pointing out that the other person is foreign. When you're foreign and trying to adjust to a new society, country and language, the last thing you need is someone pointing out how obvious it is that you're 'not from these parts.'

[kasia]

moving most of these to the 'fob' thread.

[kimpossible]

Do you wonder why ABCs do not make an attempt to become more Chinese acculturated?


How do you know they don't? I assume most do the best they can balancing a living or home-based culture and language that can be vastly different from the public or mainstream culture and language in the US. Any immigrant group that holds onto ancestral ties, not just Asians or Chinese in particular.

[Made in China]

I thought is was Fresh Off the Boeing.

Who comes to America thru a.....boat?

[ChinaLama]

i guess the Boeing thing's an updated version, MIC.

mini-rant: i really hate it when ABCs or 1.5'ers get all BOB and then calling out us more ignorant ABCs or 1.5'ers as whitewashed or as "shameful" because we don't speak the "mother" tongue. I swear if someone tells me that again, I'm gonna tell them to stop being brainwashed by the Beijingnese.

[seanp]

I thought is was Fresh Off the Boeing.

Who comes to America thru a.....boat?


uhm my whole mother's side of family on April 30, 1975 :mellow: well the first part anyway

[kitty]

I thought is was Fresh Off the Boeing.

Who comes to America thru a.....boat?

Asians came to America by boat... before the invention of the airplane.