Do you think Taiwan should ....

[Made in China]

declare independence?:sick:

MOst likely China will invade Taiwan, and US will defend Taiwan since our Pres. Bush said: We will do "Whatever it takes" to protect the soveriengty of Taiwan, even though US agrees with CHina on its "One-China Policy"

If US invades, Russia will come in and help China, and NK will Invade SK, and NUKES will start flying and here comes WW3!:laugh: YAAY!

Should lil taiwan move away?

[mr. x]

hell yes

china wont attack, cuz then that would make them as hated as the U.S.

and they no longer have that one moral high ground that the U.S. doesnt

[Tao]

uh oh......stop dragging me back into this topic!

personally i believe in one china...although not right now, since the mainland govt still has some things to fix and improve. However, eventually, i believe unification is best.

[John0101]

I believe that Taiwan should not declare it's independance. Why? Because Taiwan is already independant from China, and declaring its independant just adds fuel to a small fire.

Also I don't think China will invade Taiwan if it does declare it's independance. China has much to lose and little to gain if it invades Taiwan.

I can't really see anything really happening on this issues, unless (1) China becomes a superpower that towers over the rest of the world and can impose it's will on other countries freely without much negative consquences (2) Taiwan losses much of it's economic power/status/prestige and it's allies turn a blind eye once it does. Then there will be little repercussion from the world community.

[ChinaLama]

considering how Taiwan is the largest non-domestic investor in Mainland China, I don't think it's that certain China will invade.

[Tao]

the question posed wasn't do you think if china will invade, it's do you think taiwan should declare independence....stop dodging the question CL :P

[ChinaLama]

the question posed wasn't do you think if china will invade, it's do you think taiwan should declare independence....stop dodging the question CL :P

are you Taiwanese? My answer will vary on how many sanbeiji eaters I can offend. :happy:

[Tao]

are you Taiwanese? My answer will vary on how many sanbeiji eaters I can offend. :happy:
nope, me parents are from beijing/shenyang. go ahead i won't complain :boldred:

[John0101]

I meet a Taiwanese person before and they told me that they hated Chinese people in Taiwan, I was really shocked. I also heard that Taiwanese is it's own unique language and is different then mandarin. That was quite surpising too.

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

The Nationalists took control over Taiwan when they fled the mainland and imposed many rather immoral restrictions on the indigenous culture and people in addition to a massacre of some sort to maintain control. So there is enmity.

Should they declare independence? I don't think so because there is not much to gain and alot to lose. I would like to see Taiwanese democracy "infect" the mainland. Chinese policy keeps steering itself to be more palatable to Taiwan so I'd to see that continue.

China is not militarily capable of successfully invading Taiwan and not at all if the US intervenes. China is capable of inflicting a significant amount of damage to Taiwanese infrastructure and industry from missiles and air attacks which is probably the more likely course of action. Or retaking a few islands close to the mainland that Taiwan controls. As the Taiwanese government, I'd worry about sleeper agents and mainland/one China sympathizers sabotaging things.

[SunWuKong]

should Taiwan declare independence?

of course not. but not because mainland China will invade. the CCP is not stupid. they know there is no way they can successfully take Taiwan back by force if the US intervened, and the US will definitely intervene. China has everything to lose by trying to take Taiwan back by force. it would wreck havoc on its economy.

Taiwan shouldn't declare independence because they stand to lose a lot economically. China and Taiwan are interdependent right now, but in my opinion, Taiwan needs China a lot more than China needs Taiwan.

i believe in reunification, but i am adamantly against reunification by force. going to war is bad enough, going to war against your brothers is worse. i also don't think the CCP is in a state that's ready to govern Taiwan. it has a lot of reforms to go through. for all the negative aspects about the DPP and the Taiwanese government, the CCP is much worse. it's much better currently for Taiwanese people to keep being governed by the Taiwanese government. i mean, poor mainland Chinese people don't immigrant to Taiwan illegally for no reason.

[John0101]

China is not militarily capable of successfully invading Taiwan and not at all if the US intervenes. China is capable of inflicting a significant amount of damage to Taiwanese infrastructure and industry from missiles and air attacks which is probably the more likely course of action.

I would have to disagree, China can easily invade and take over Taiwan at this time. Taiwan is not a nuclear power while China is. The treat of a nuclear attack is enough for coercion (if they do use the nuclear power card, it's gonna be just a buff). I agree that the only reason why China can't is because of Taiwan's bodyguard, the U.S. and the international community.

[AngryABCGirl]

No, despite the shameful ball-less state they are in right now in the international community, I'd rather see the status quo remain than see bloodshed between Chinese people. I'd rather see both countries slowly progress and maybe some day far along the line see reunification, but not right now, and maybe not for most of my lifetime, although I think some important events regarding that will happen sometime in mine.

[SunWuKong]

i forgot who it was, but someone on YW said that some people in Taiwan can get really annoyed at American Chinese/Taiwanese for saying Taiwan should or should not declare independence, because over here, we really don't have first-hand experience of the social/political atmosphere surrounding the independence issue, and more importantly, it doesn't really affect our lives.

[himura-dono]

http://genmay.com/images/smilies/kruzen.gif

[Emperor_Mike]

No, I'm against the idea. The current state of affairs between Taiwan and the mainland are just "fine" as they are. It's de-facto autonomy, as far as I'm concerned. Why those idiot politicians in Taiwan want to throw several litres of petrol into the fire is really incomprehensible.

Besides, as many of you have already noted, Taiwan has economic interests on the mainland. If politics in Taiwan function in the same manner the world over, you can expect lobby groups to withold political funds if they deem their business interests are at stake. In which case, I believe that all Beijing has to do is kick the Taiwanese corporations out of China and effectively create an economic blockade if matters come to head. Both sides suffer, yes, but at the end of the day the question that needs to be asked is "Who suffers more?"

Naturally, it's not as simple as I've made it out to be (in my infinite-inability to make sense of complex political matters!) but I think it's an option open to Beijing at any rate. In this day and age, arguments are usually won with the all powerful yuan (peso, dollar, pound, euro, etc.)

Or at least it should be.

[yoMAMA]

Taiwan is part of China, simple as that.

That being said, I also belive in unification by the German model......aka the stronger one absorbs the weaker one....without force ;) :D

[Proud_Jook_Sing]

I would have to disagree, China can easily invade and take over Taiwan at this time. Taiwan is not a nuclear power while China is. The treat of a nuclear attack is enough for coercion (if they do use the nuclear power card, it's gonna be just a buff). I agree that the only reason why China can't is because of Taiwan's bodyguard, the U.S. and the international community.
John, it is not widely known but Taiwan has nuclear warheads that can be dropped as far as Beijing. The conflict will not go nuclear in any event.

Conventionally, most military experts would say China won't be able to invade Taiwan. That requires air superiority, a naval blockade and greater amphibious capability that China currently has. Kinda of hard to use numerical superiority if the troops can't get across the strait.

[kimpossible]

My answer will vary on how many sanbeiji eaters I can offend. :happy:

that reminds me to take the chicken out of the freezer. thanks.

[deez nuts]

yes, because all the cheap slutty women, hookers and highlife are now in the mainland. it all goes down in the motherland nowadays. da bitches be da duuuurtiest over in the mainland.

taiwanese bitches want too much. they need to be taught the value of the all mighty american buck.

UNITE WITH THE MOTHERLAND!

[VV o n g B a]

they know there is no way they can successfully take Taiwan back by force if the US intervened, and the US will definitely intervene.

actually, in a couple of years, i doubt the US will be in a position where it is willing to send troops to defend taiwan. this of course depends a good bit on how the situation in iraq and the war on terror goes. but if things don't go well for the US then the US public would be hesitant to embroil themselves in a new conflict that might spiral out of control.

troop morale is already down from extended tours and daily attacks. and the way the bush administration is trimming soldier's pay, it doesn't look like its gonna rise soon. when stressed, tired and underpayed soldiers start losing their cool, we'll get repeat situations of vietnam where soldiers massacred and raped civilians. the army won't have enuf enticements to get the recruits they need and station them in hot zones. the military only looks like a good option for most ppl when our side is winning.

and in general, the US public fears china. i haven't personally met a single white person that thinks that taiwan is worth defending against china and i live in the south where u might think that ppl would be more gung-ho about this stuff. if the chinese pr machine is good enuf, i think they can convince the US public that taiwan can't be defended without massive loss of life. if that happened, then the US response would be a lot of huffing and puffing but nothing in the way of a real military response.

[John0101]

John, it is not widely known but Taiwan has nuclear warheads that can be dropped as far as Beijing. The conflict will not go nuclear in any event.


Taiwan has nukes? When did this happen?

[SunWuKong]

with all due respect, the topic of discussion is whether or not Taiwan should declare independence. everytime this topic comes up on YW, it degrades to whether or not China can successfully take Taiwan back by force. they're related topics, of course, but it always breaks down to a lot of hypothetical military scenarios.

let's try to steer away from that this time.

[VV o n g B a]

fair enuf. i think the taiwanese should do what's in their interest. i think it's currently in their interest to keep the status quo and not declare independence. if at some point in the future, china becomes democratic, then taiwanese should reevaluate the situation. if they think they'd still be better off without china, then so be it. they should have at least that much self determination after so many years of autonomy.

china makes too big a deal of taiwan. so what if they leave? so what if tibet and xinjiang leave? to me it's not that big a deal. if those periphery regions leave, they would STILL need to work w/ china. it's not like declaring independence means u don't have to feed ur ppl and that means u have to work w/ china. preferrably on good terms.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

china probably won't become democratic. At best, it'll Singaporeanize. Just what the world needed, Singapore x300. To be honest I don't give a damn about independence or non-independence or splittism or reunification or whatever, I just want whatever outcome makes Taiwan less likely to share that fate of Singaporeanization.

[kimpossible]

Singaporeanization

which means?

[kimpossible]

Yo, MIC. We've changed course.

with all due respect, the topic of discussion is whether or not Taiwan should declare independence. everytime this topic comes up on YW, it degrades to whether or not China can successfully take Taiwan back by force. they're related topics, of course, but it always breaks down to a lot of hypothetical military scenarios.

let's try to steer away from that this time

[kasia]

for what purpose? symbolic?

[Ogumo]

I don't think that taiwan should declare independence. But if they do I don't think that now is the time. Personally I think that they should reabsorbed back into china.

[Ogumo]

for what purpose? symbolic?


You have a point. They are pretty much independent I believe already. So yes it would be more symbolic than anything.

[Ogumo]

MIC. Sunwukung already has said do not turn this into a chinese military thread. If you want to talk about the capabilities of the peoples army make a thread for specifically this.

[SunWuKong]

the thread has been split.
refer to this thread (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=11014) if you want to talk purely about military capabilities. any future such posts in this thread will be deleted.