Jessica Lynch

[VV o n g B a]

damn. this is sick.

--------------------------
Saving Private Lynch story 'flawed'

Private Jessica Lynch became an icon of the war, and the story of her capture by the Iraqis and her rescue by US special forces became one of the great patriotic moments of the conflict.

But her story is one of the most stunning pieces of news management ever conceived.

Private Lynch, a 19-year-old army clerk from Palestine, West Virginia, was captured when her company took a wrong turning just outside Nasiriya and was ambushed.

Nine of her comrades were killed and Private Lynch was taken to the local hospital, which at the time was swarming with Fedayeen. Eight days later US special forces stormed the hospital, capturing the "dramatic" events on a night vision camera.

They were said to have come under fire from inside and outside the building, but they made it to Lynch and whisked her away by helicopter.

Reports claimed that she had stab and bullet wounds and that she had been slapped about on her hospital bed and interrogated.

But Iraqi doctors in Nasiriya say they provided the best treatment they could for the soldier in the midst of war. She was assigned the only specialist bed in the hospital and one of only two nurses on the floor.

"I examined her, I saw she had a broken arm, a broken thigh and a dislocated ankle," said Dr Harith a-Houssona, who looked after her.

Jessica amnesia

"There was no [sign of] shooting, no bullet inside her body, no stab wound - only road traffic accident. They want to distort the picture. I don't know why they think there is some benefit in saying she has a bullet injury."

Witnesses told us that the special forces knew that the Iraqi military had fled a day before they swooped on the hospital.

"We were surprised. Why do this? There was no military, there were no soldiers in the hospital," said Dr Anmar Uday, who worked at the hospital.

"It was like a Hollywood film. They cried 'go, go, go', with guns and blanks without bullets, blanks and the sound of explosions. They made a show for the American attack on the hospital - action movies like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan."

There was one more twist. Two days before the snatch squad arrived, Harith had arranged to deliver Jessica to the Americans in an ambulance.

But as the ambulance, with Private Lynch inside, approached a checkpoint American troops opened fire, forcing it to flee back to the hospital. The Americans had almost killed their prize catch.

When footage of the rescue was released, General Vincent Brooks, US spokesman in Doha, said: "Some brave souls put their lives on the line to make this happen, loyal to a creed that they know that they'll never leave a fallen comrade."

The American strategy was to ensure the right television footage by using embedded reporters and images from their own cameras, editing the film themselves.

The Pentagon had been influenced by Hollywood producers of reality TV and action movies, notably the man behind Black Hawk Down, Jerry Bruckheimer.

Bruckheimer advised the Pentagon on the primetime television series "Profiles from the Front Line", that followed US forces in Afghanistan in 2001. That approached was taken on and developed on the field of battle in Iraq.

As for Private Lynch, her status as cult hero is stronger than ever. Internet auction sites list Jessica Lynch items, from an oil painting with an opening bid of $200 to a $5 "America Loves Jessica Lynch" fridge magnet.

But doctors now say she has no recollection of the whole episode and probably never will.

story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/3028585.stm)

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@May 29 2003, 12:07 PM
But doctors now say she has no recollection of the whole episode and probably never will.

Probably not of her own choosing too. The government would make her life miserable if she did otherwise.

[ren28]

US Government... oh boy...

[sOKaLiBoY]

haha that is too funny. you just have to love our government :rolleyes:

[Faithless]

But as the ambulance, with Private Lynch inside, approached a checkpoint American troops opened fire, forcing it to flee back to the hospital. The Americans had almost killed their prize catch.

That would have sucked. :frown:

[Emperor_Mike]

Propaganda of all types is to be to expected in a war, eh? The Jessica Lynch incident is probably only the tip of the iceberg. The Saddam Statue pulldown was orchestrated as well, according to the BBC. The "cheering Iraqis" were all part of the group in exile recently returned to Baghdad.

[rakovlam]

How stupid or indoctrinated do you have to be to believe this story?

Do I really have to waste my time and rebut this story when there are about a couple dozen fiskings already?

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by rakovlam@May 29 2003, 04:22 PM
How stupid or indoctrinated do you have to be to believe this story?

Do I really have to waste my time and rebut this story when there are about a couple dozen fiskings already?
It's not that hard to believe. Consider the story of the famous "flag raising on Iwo Jima" picture, which was dramatic, patriotic, and completely staged. Is it so hard to believe that the current military wouldn't do the exact same thing?

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by rakovlam@May 29 2003, 02:22 PM
How stupid or indoctrinated do you have to be to believe this story?

Do I really have to waste my time and rebut this story when there are about a couple dozen fiskings already?
We went to a war the nation was divided on and riddled with inconsistencies, should we be surprised something that has happened again and again in history happened again today, ironically close to an election year?

[tvbdude]

fucked up place we live in eh?

[MellowDrama]

What? Disinformation coming from the military? NEVER!

:rolleyes:

[SunWuKong]

and where are those damn weapons that the CIA is going to plant anyway? :rolleyes:

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 30 2003, 09:12 AM

It's not that hard to believe. Consider the story of the famous "flag raising on Iwo Jima" picture, which was dramatic, patriotic, and completely staged. Is it so hard to believe that the current military wouldn't do the exact same thing?
Staged or not, the flag WAS raised over Iwo Jima. The picture DOES capture that. Perhaps it was not at the end of the battle, but rather in the middle, yet I see nothing wrong with that. There are soldiers putting the US flag on a hill they captured. They may have posed for the picture but it's all good.

[mr. x]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@May 29 2003, 11:07 AM
They made a show for the American attack on the hospital - action movies like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan."

bwahaha jackie chan, IN

"SAVING PRIVATE LYNCH"

the hospital scene in which he uses her fragile body as a weapon was pure genious

[angel nympho]

I'm not suprised, nor do I care.

[Geegeh7]

I believe the US media is corrupt, eversince Bush took office.

Yes, I do know that the Jessica Lynch rescue coverage is skewed and bias, just like every other coverage on the Iraq war.

For example, I watched YTN, a Korean news shown in certain parts of the US (like LA, Honolulu, NYC, CHicago). Anyhow, I watched US fighter jets drop tons of missiles on villages packed with innocent civilians. I also saw civilians bleeding like crazy, from the bomb shrapnels.

When I flicked to MSNBC or CNN (communist news network), none of their coverages showed innocent civilians suffering. Just showed tanks rolling across the desert at 60 mph....which I considered was boring.

So yes, the US media is bizarre, and only wants to glorify the "goodness" of this war.

[pfc beansprout]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 30 2003, 01:07 AM
I'm not suprised, nor do I care.
~hmmm...u don't think u should? media (and government..or are they the same now?) feeding the public with wrong information...what do u think will happen to future generations of gullible, yet ethnocentric americans? remember, this is where millions, and millions of americans understand their country...the media. if they are not skeptical of the government/media...we might as well be a communist country and get our daily bread from uncle sam w/o asking questions. :ph34r:

[MellowDrama]

Hey PFC! You're back! Where you at?

[myself808]

The problem I have with this is not wether or not the events happened, its the media's uncritical reporting in the first place, which is the larger issue. Interesting though how much the righties in the blogosphere defend the integrity of the media when the storyline fits their preconceptions....

[Emperor_Mike]

Somehow I think to expect anything other than misleading news from a country at war is silly indeed. It's not like the US media/US Army media liason is going to say, "Oh, why yes Jessica Lynch played her part rather well, didn't she? She's a regular Hollywood actress type and maybe she'll even sign a film deal."

We need to take everything with a grain of salt. It's not being cynical (okay, it is) but I'd much rather form my own opinions after examining the facts (or perhaps lack thereof) and not rely on someone else's point of view.

[achtungbaby]

I saw this on CNN about two weeks ago. I laughed my ass off.

[FACKU]

I laughed my ass off when I saw that there was a live press conference a couple days ago from her family members... duh, like i really care what her family members have to say...

[golden_buns]

I get the feeling that some network is planning to make a movie based 'on a true story'. Or at the very least someone's already writing her biography which will turn out to be next year's best seller

[rakovlam]

Here's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2760-2003Jun16.html?nav=hptop_tb) a thorough account from the Washington Post. This should clear up the bs from the BBC and the rest of the media.

[Emperor_Mike]

For the benefit for those of us who refuse to sign up for the Washington Post:


--------------------------------


A Broken Body, a Broken Story, Pieced Together
Investigation Reveals Lynch -- Still in Hospital After 67 Days -- Suffered Bone-Crushing Injuries in Crash During Ambush

By Dana Priest, William Booth and Susan Schmidt
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, June 17, 2003; Page A01


Jessica Lynch, the most famous soldier of the Iraq war, remains in a private room at the end of a hall on an upper floor of Walter Reed Army Medical Center, her door guarded by a military police officer.

To repair the fractures, a spinal injury and other injuries suffered during her ordeal, the 20-year-old private first class undergoes a daily round of physical therapy. But she does so alone, during the lunch hours, when other patients are not admitted.

Her father, Greg Lynch Sr., wearing a fresh T-shirt each day with a yellow ribbon pinned to his chest, rarely leaves her side, except to sleep at night. Lynch has been in the hospital now for 67 days. Her physical condition remains severe. But she also appears to suffer from wounds that cannot be seen -- and the story of her capture and rescue remains only partly told.

Her family says she doesn't remember anything about her capture. U.S. military sources say she is unable -- or unwilling -- to say much about anything that happened to her between the morning her Army unit was ambushed and when she became fully conscious sometime later at Saddam Hussein General Hospital in Nasiriyah, Iraq.

As the world would remember, Lynch and her Army maintenance unit were ambushed in southern Iraq on the morning of March 23. Eleven of her fellow soldiers were killed; five others were taken captive and later freed. Blond and waiflike, Lynch was taken prisoner and held separately for nine days before a dramatic nighttime rescue from her hospital bed by a covert U.S. Special Operations unit, Task Force 20.

Initial news reports, including those in The Washington Post, which cited unnamed U.S. officials with access to intelligence reports, described Lynch emptying her M-16 into Iraqi soldiers. The intelligence reports from intercepts and Iraqi informants said that Lynch fought fiercely, was stabbed and shot multiple times, and that she killed several of her assailants.

"She was fighting to the death," one of the officials was quoted as saying. "She did not want to be taken alive."

It became the story of the war, boosting morale at home and among the troops. It was irresistible and cinematic, the maintenance clerk turned woman-warrior from the hollows of West Virginia who just wouldn't quit. Hollywood promised to make a movie and the media, too, were hungry for heroes.

Lynch's story is far more complex and different than those initial reports. Much of the story remains shrouded in mystery, in large part because of official Army secrecy, concerns for Lynch's privacy and her limited memory.

The Post's initial coverage attracted widespread criticism because many of the sources were unnamed and because the accounts were soon contradicted by other military officials. In an effort to document more fully what had actually happened to Lynch, The Post interviewed dozens of people, including associates of Lynch's family in West Virginia; Iraqi doctors, nurses and civilian witnesses in Nasiriyah; and U.S. intelligence and military officials in Washington, three of whom have knowledge of a weeks-long Army investigation into the matter.

The result is a second, more thorough but inconclusive cut at history. While much more is revealed about her ordeal, most U.S. officials still insisted that their names be withheld from this account.

Lynch tried to fire her weapon, but it jammed, according to military officials familiar with the Army investigation. She did not kill any Iraqis. She was neither shot nor stabbed, they said.

Lynch's unit, the 507th Maintenance Company, was ambushed outside Nasiriyah after taking several wrong turns. Army investigators believe this happened in part because superiors never passed on word that the long 3rd Infantry Division column that the convoy was following had been rerouted. At times, the 507th was 12 hours behind the main column and frequently out of radio contact.

Lynch was riding in a Humvee when it plowed into a jackknifed U.S. truck. She suffered major injuries, including multiple fractures and compression to her spine, that knocked her unconscious, military sources said. The collision killed or gravely injured the Humvee's four other passengers.

Two U.S. officials with knowledge of the Army investigation said Lynch was mistreated by her captors. They would not elaborate.

Tipped that Lynch was inside Saddam Hussein General Hospital in Nasiriyah, the CIA, fearing a trap, sent an agent into the facility with a hidden camera to confirm she was there, intelligence sources said.

The Special Operations unit's full-scale rescue of the private, while justified given the uncertainty confronting U.S. forces as they entered the compound, ultimately was proven unnecessary. Iraqi combatants had left the hospital almost a day earlier, leaving Lynch in the hands of doctors and nurses who said they were eager to turn her over to Americans.

Neither the Pentagon nor the White House publicly dispelled the more romanticized initial version of her capture, helping to foster the myth surrounding Lynch and fuel accusations that the Bush administration stage-managed parts of Lynch's story.

Only Lynch is in position to know everything that happened to her -- and she may not ever be able to tell the story.

"The doctors are reasonably sure," said Army spokesman Kiki Bryant, "that she does not know what happened to her."

Falling Behind

On the western outskirts of Nasiriyah, just a few miles from the city's downtown, a middle-aged farmer named Sahib Khudher was worried and outside of his house when a large U.S. convoy -- a dozen or more trucks, trailers, wreckers and Humvees -- passed by on the road heading north a few hours before dawn, he said. It was March 23, the fourth day of the war, as U.S. troops poured into Iraq in a modern-day blitz.

The farmer waved at the Americans. "But they did not see me," he said.

A few hours later, trucks mysteriously returned. At first, Khudher thought they might be Iraqi army members or Republican Guards coming to fight. But he saw that the vehicles were American, and that they were being pursued in a wild, running gun battle with pickup trucks filled with what Khudher assumed were militia from Saddam's Fedayeen and Iraqi irregulars in civilian clothing. They were firing into the U.S. vehicles and at their tires.

"There was shooting, shooting everywhere," Khudher said. "There were accidents, too. Crash sounds. You could see and hear the vehicles hitting each other. And yelling. Screaming. I could hear English."

The 18 Humvees, trailers and tow trucks of Lynch's 507th Maintenance Company were the tail end of the 3rd Infantry Division's 8,000-vehicle convoy snaking its way from Kuwait to Baghdad. A Patriot missile maintenance crew by training, the members of the 507th based at Fort Bliss, Tex., were assigned to keep the Army's war machine moving.

The initial plan called for moving north on "Route Blue," Highway 8, until the southern outskirts of Nasiriyah, according to military officials. Because the city was still teeming with enemy fighters, commanders decided to reroute the column to "Route Jackson," Highway 1, which skirted around the town to the south and west.

But the 507th never got word of the change.

The miscommunication happened, in part, Army investigators believe, because a battalion commander in the 3rd Forward Support Battalion to which it was attached never made sure the 507th had received word of the route change.

"They didn't know about Route Jackson," said one senior military officer briefed on the investigators' findings. "We believe it would have never happened if the proper procedure had been followed." No disciplinary action is expected, said the official, who attributed the tragedy to the fog of war.

The unit fell behind as the enormous wrecking tractors and cargo trailers -- equipment to haul other giant Army vehicles and supplies -- tried to adjust to the division's changing pace.

But other mishaps contributed. Long before they reached Nasiriyah, two of the 507th's 5-ton trailers had broken down, forcing the back half of the unit -- 18 vehicles in all -- to fall farther behind the lead elements, where the company commander was riding.

Lynch was among the soldiers in that trailing half.

By the time the 507th reached Nasiriyah, some of the unit's soldiers and officers had gone without sleep for 60 hours. As one officer put it, they suffered "a fatigue that adversely affected their decision-making."

A 'Catastrophic' Crash

The commander of Lynch's company -- a captain whose identity could not be learned -- informed superiors up ahead that they had fallen as many as 12 hours behind. "He was advised the rest of the column has to move on time whether the rest of them get there or not," a defense official familiar with the Army's investigation said.

Navigating through unfamiliar streets, troops jury-rigged antennas to stay in touch with the lead elements of the battalion, since their radios had a range of only 10 miles. But the radios didn't always work.

It was about 6:30 a.m. when they entered the city, and few Iraqis were about. Those who were, including soldiers at checkpoints and armed men in SUVs, just waved at the Americans as they drove by, military officials said.

Using a navigational device, the company commander turned the convoy left and, minutes later, came to a T-intersection, where he ordered the vehicles to turn right again. Then the commander decided to turn around the column of huge, lumbering trailers and tractors.

They attempted to retrace their route, but missed a turn. Then one of the U.S. vehicles ran out of fuel.

Lynch at this point was riding on a 5-ton truck, officials believe, although they are still uncertain.

It was 7 a.m., and more Iraqis were appearing on the streets, military officials with knowledge of the Army investigation said. The company commander instructed his troops to lock and load their weapons. Each soldier had 210 rounds of ammunition. The senior noncommissioned officer, Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38, took the rear position in the column, while the company commander went up front.

"We have to pick up speed, move faster!" Dowdy began yelling over the radio, according to the defense official, who has read the surviving soldiers' accounts.

As the convoy drove back into central Nasiriyah, it was met by Iraqi forces, some in civilian clothing, who fired at it from on foot, from vehicles and from stationary mortar positions. Soldiers interviewed by investigators said the Iraqis fired AK-47s, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, hand grenades and mortar shells. The Iraqis fired from both sides of the road.

At least one Iraqi T-55 tank appeared, and the Iraqis positioned sandbags, debris and cars to block the convoy's path.

"A very harrowing, very intense" gun battle was how the senior military officer described it. The U.S. troops fired back.

"We don't know how many rounds she got off," the official said of Lynch, or whether she got off any shots at all. "Her weapon jammed severely."

At some point, Lynch's vehicle is believed to have broken down and she got into Dowdy's soft-top Humvee, which was driven by Pfc. Lori Piestewa, one of Lynch's close friends. They were joined by two other soldiers whose wrecker became disabled. Dowdy pulled them to safety at great risk to himself, the defense official said. They took the seats on either side of Lynch, who sat atop the transmission hump in the middle.

As his soldiers came under fire, Dowdy, now with four soldiers in his Humvee, sped along the road at speeds of 50 mph, encouraging his soldiers "to get into the fight, trying to get vehicles to move and getting soldiers out of one broken-down vehicle and into another," the senior military officer said.

The soldiers in Dowdy's Humvee "had their weapons at the ready and their seat belts off," said the senior officer, who was also briefed on the investigation. "We assume they were firing back."

There were other acts of bravery. One soldier, whose name could not be learned, bolted from his vehicle to try to rescue other soldiers from a disabled vehicle. He took cover behind a berm, not realizing at first that Iraqi soldiers were on the other side in a mortar pit. When he did, he killed a half-dozen of them with his weapons, the defense official said. Soon, though, he was surrounded by a couple of dozen armed Iraqis and is believed to have been killed on the spot.

"He didn't have a chance," said the official.

A U.S. tractor-trailer with a flatbed swerved around an Iraqi dump truck and jackknifed. As Dowdy's speeding Humvee approached the overturned tractor-trailer, it was hit on the driver's side by a rocket-propelled grenade. The driver, Piestewa, lost control of the Humvee, swerved right and struck the trailer.

The senior defense official described the collision as "catastrophic."

Dowdy, sitting in the passenger seat, was killed instantly. So, probably, were the two soldiers on either side of Lynch. Piestewa and Lynch were seriously injured, according to the senior officer's account.

Lynch's arm and legs were crushed by the compression, U.S. military doctors later concluded. Tiny bone fragments protruded through her skin.

Khudher, the Iraqi farmer, remembered seeing a Humvee crash into a truck. Later, when it was safe to approach the road, he saw "two American women, one dark-skinned, one light-skinned, pulled from the Humvee. I think the light one was dead. The dark-skinned one was hurt."

Khudher appears to have seen Lynch, who is white, unconscious, taken prisoner, as well as Piestewa, who was Native American, still alive.

In the hours after the ambush, Arabic-speaking interpreters at the National Security Agency, reviewing intercepted Iraqi communications from either hand-held radios or cellular phones, heard references to "an American female soldier with blond hair who was very brave and fought against them," according to a senior military officer who read the top-secret intelligence report when it came in. An intelligence source cited reports from Iraqis at the scene, saying she had fired all her ammunition.

Over the next hours and days, commanders at Central Command, which was running the war from Doha, Qatar, and CIA officers with them at headquarters were bombarded with military "sit reps" and agency Field Information Reports about the ambush, according to intelligence and military sources. The Iraqi reports included information about a female soldier. One said she died in battle. Some said she was wounded by shrapnel. Some said she had been shot in the arm and leg, and stabbed.

These reports were distributed only to generals, intelligence officers and policymakers in Washington who are cleared to read the most sensitive information the U.S. government possesses.

These intelligence reports, and the one bit of eavesdropping, created the story of the war.

'She Would Have Died'

Down a two-lane blacktop rolling through dry farmlands, just a mile or two from the ambush site, lies the Iraqi military hospital of Nasiriyah. It was where Lynch was first treated after her capture.

Today, the three-story structure is a gutted ruin, charred from fires. Mangled brown Iraqi military vehicles fill the parking lot.

On the morning of Lynch's capture, the military hospital was a beehive, with fleeing, fighting and wounded Iraqi troops coming and going as U.S. troops swept into Iraq from Kuwait.

Adnan Mushafafawi, a brigadier in the Iraqi army medical corps, a member of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein's Baath Party and the director of the hospital, said a policeman brought in two female U.S. soldiers about 10 a.m.

"They were both unconscious," he said. They were severely wounded, he recalled, exhibiting symptoms of shock and trauma. He read their dog tags: They were Lynch and her friend Piestewa.

"Miss Lori," Mushafafawi said, "had bruises all over her face. She was bleeding from the eyes. A severe head wound." He said Piestewa died soon after arriving at the hospital.

Did either soldier display evidence she had been stabbed or shot? "No, no," he said. Pressed, he later answered, "Maybe Miss Lori, maybe shot."

Mushafafawi said he and his medical staff cut away Lynch's uniform and threw her clothes on the floor. She lay on a gurney, almost naked, as Iraqi military doctors and nurses worked on her, he said.

Lynch had multiple fractures, Mushafafawi said, a head injury that he described as minor. He said the staff sutured the wound. She was given blood and intravenous fluids, he said. The staff took X-rays, partly set her fractures and applied splints and plaster casts to them.

"If we had left her without treatment, she would have died," Mushafafawi said.

The military doctor said Lynch briefly regained consciousness at his hospital, but appeared disoriented. "She was very scared," he said. "We reassured her that she would be safe now."

But when Mushafafawi suggested to Lynch that he might attempt to better set her leg fracture, Lynch said "she didn't want us to do anything more," he recalled.

"She was here two, three hours," the doctor said, and then transferred by military ambulance to Nasiriyah's main civilian facility, Saddam Hussein General Hospital across town.

Mushafafawi said he assumed his military hospital probably would be attacked by U.S. forces, which two days later overran the compound. He said that it was his decision to transfer Lynch, and that no military or intelligence officers accompanied her. Piestewa's body also was transported to Saddam Hussein hospital.

Mushafafawi said he did not know what happened to Piestewa or Lynch between their capture shortly after 7 a.m. and their appearance at his hospital about three hours later.

Later that day, the Arab news network al-Jazeera broadcast graphic close-up film of bodies, believed to be from Lynch's unit, sprawled on a concrete floor at an undisclosed location. Two of the soldiers appeared to have been shot in the forehead, one between the eyes. A smiling Iraqi moved among the bodies, displaying them for the camera.

Four exhausted and shaken POWs from the 507th were shown in the same newscast, giving minimal answers to questions posed by their Iraqi captors who had transported them to Baghdad.

'Crying All the Time'

When Lynch arrived at Saddam Hussein hospital in a military ambulance that afternoon, the nurses and doctors who admitted her said they were surprised to find an American woman, almost naked, her limbs in plaster casts, beneath a sheet.

Interviewed recently about Lynch's stay at the hospital, staff members insisted that they gave her the best care they could, and that they did not believe it was possible for Iraqi agents to have abused her while she was there. Though Iraqi military, intelligence and Baath Party officials began using the hospital as a base of operations, they said they saw no one mistreat Lynch -- though a member of Iraq's intelligence service was posted outside her door.

As the doctors and nurses recalled, Lynch's condition was grave as they brought her into the emergency room. In addition to her multiple fractures, her extremities were cold, her blood pressure down, her heart rate accelerated. She was unconscious and in shock.

The hospital was operating, but stressed to its limits. Only a dozen doctors from a staff of 60 came to work; the nursing staff was skeletal as the roads were too dangerous to travel; the electricity was sporadic; the generators were failing; medical supplies spotty; and all the while, during Lynch's stay at the hospital, the hospital was receiving more than 200 casualties a day. One young intern said he was reduced to mopping up bloody floors himself.

"It was substandard care, by American standards, we know this, okay? But Jessica got the best we could offer," said Harith Hassona, one of two young resident physicians who assisted in her care.

After several days of treatment, Lynch's condition improved. She was moved from the emergency room to an empty cardiac care unit, where she had her own room, and was tended to by two female nurses.

But she was in pain, and given powerful drugs. She ate, sporadically, asking for juice and crackers. The staff said she was offered Iraqi hospital food, but refused. "She wanted to see things opened in front of her -- then she would eat," said Furat Hussein, one of her nurses.

Her mental state varied from hour to hour, according to the Iraqi nurses and doctors. "She would joke with us sometimes, and sometimes she would weep," Hussein said.

"She didn't want to be left alone and she didn't want strangers to care for her," said Anmar Uday, one of the two primary care physicians. "One time, she asked me, 'Why are you standing in front of me? Are you gong to hurt me?' We said no, we're here to help you."

"Crying all the time," recalled Khalida Shnan, a nurse who wept herself when describing how she tried to comfort Lynch by singing to her night and rubbing talc on her shoulders. Mahdi Khafaji, an orthopedic surgeon, said he knew that sooner or later U.S. troops would come for Lynch, and "we wanted to show the Americans that we are human beings."

Khafaji said treating Lynch well was in their self-interest: "She was more important at that moment than Saddam Hussein." He added, "You could not help but feeling sorry for her. A young girl. An American. A prisoner. We did our best. Believe me, she was the only orthopedic surgery I performed." Khafaji suggested that as he worked on Lynch, ordinary Iraqis went without treatment, and some may have died.

But Khafaji said that, without a doubt, the Iraqi leadership was also employing Lynch as a human shield.

If the hospital was chaotic and understaffed, it was also overrun with senior Iraqi officials, who were living and working out of the basement, clinics, and the doctors' residence halls and offices.

The staff said there were 50 to 100 Iraqi combatants in or around the hospital at any one time -- though the number shrank day by day as deserters fled at night and the Americans closed in.

The head of the municipal government, Younis Mohammad Thareb, was there, as was senior Baath Party officer Adel Abdallah Doori. There were military and special security officers also, as well as Iraqi militia and members of Saddam's Fedayeen.

"They were all here," Hassona said.

Someone in civilian clothing, whom Hassona said was a low-ranking employee of one of the Iraqi intelligence services, stood guard outside Lynch's door. Hassona and other hospital staff members said they kept a close eye on Lynch; they feared that Iraqi officials might try to move or harass or interrogate her. "But you have to understand that these guys knew the Americans were coming, and toward the end, they were most worried about saving themselves," Hassona said.

But there was still an atmosphere of fear.

"When she woke up once, she was saying she was scared and wanted someone to stay with her," Hassona recalled. "She said, 'I'm afraid of Saddam Hussein,' and I said, 'Shhhh. Don't say that name. You must keep quiet.' "

Soon after Lynch's arrival, Hassona and Khafaji said they were approached by an intelligence officer and asked how soon Lynch could be moved.

"I told him 72 hours, at least," Khafaji said.

Khafaji said that Lynch's wounds made him suspicious. The fractures were on both sides of her body, for example, and "if they all came from a car accident, there was no glass in her wounds, no lacerations or deep bruises."

U.S. military sources believe most if not all the fractures could have been caused by extreme compression during her vehicle accident. Khafaji said "maybe a car accident, or maybe they broke her bones with rifle butts or by stomping on her legs. I don't know. They know and Jessica knows. I can only guess."

A Lawyer's Story

Within a few days of her capture, U.S. military and intelligence agencies would learn from several Iraqis in Nasiriyah that one of the 507th soldiers was being held captive at Saddam Hussein hospital.

One of those Iraqis was Mohammed Odeh Rehaief, a 32-year-old lawyer who told U.S. authorities he learned about Lynch on March 27, when he went there to see his wife, Iman, a nurse in the kidney unit.

"In the hospital corridors, I observed a large number of Fedayeen Saddam," Rehaief recounted in a statement. "I knew they were Fedayeen because they were wearing their traditional black ninja-style uniforms that covered everything but their eyes. I also saw high army officials there."

Rehaief said a doctor friend told him about Lynch. He peered through a glass panel into her room, he said, and "saw a large man in black looming over a bed that contained a small bandaged woman with blond hair."

There were epaulets on the man's shirt, indicating he was a Fedayeen officer, Rahaief said. "He appeared to be questioning the woman through a translator. Then I saw him slap her -- first with the palm of his hand, then with the back of his hand."

When the Fedayeen officer left, Rehaief said, he crept into Lynch's room and told her he would help her. "Don't worry," he said. He then walked east across Nasiriyah, where he encountered a group of Marines and told them about Lynch.

The Marines -- who corroborated Rehaief's story that he assisted them -- sent him back to the hospital several times to map out access to the site and the route getting there, and to count the number of Iraqi troops inside.

The staff of the civilian hospital believes Rehaief did tell the Marines about Lynch, but some nurses and doctors disputed other parts of his story.

The head nurse of the hospital said there is no nurse named Iman employed by the facility, or any nurse married to a lawyer. "This is something we would know," she said.

"Never happened," Hassona said. Men in black slapping Lynch? "That's some Hollywood crap you'd tell the Americans." Hassona said he suspected the lawyer embellished his story.

After the rescue, Rehaief and his wife were transported by U.S. forces to a military camp in Kuwait. Rahaief, along with his wife and daughter, was granted political asylum in the United States. He is living in Northern Virginia, working on a book for HarperCollins and with NBC for a television movie on the rescue.

Rahaief and members of Lynch's family have not sought each other out.

Rescue

Task Force 20, a covert U.S. Special Operations unit, worked on only the highest U.S. priorities in Iraq: hunting for weapons of mass destruction, weapons scientists and Baath Party leaders -- and rescuing Jessica Lynch.

Among the pre-mission briefings the group received before its move on the hospital was the fact that the hospital had been reportedly visited by Ali Hassan Majeed, otherwise known as "Chemical Ali," one of the most sought-after targets in the Iraqi leadership. Sources on the ground and imagery from Predator unmanned vehicles, which had been flying over the hospital for days, indicated it might serve as some kind of military command-and-control facility.

Militarily, "they knew they were going into an unknown situation," said one Special Operations officer. "They came armed for bear." Central Command was worried enough about the Iraqi military's response that it ordered a force of Marines, with tanks and armored personnel carriers, into Nasiriyah in a feint to draw attention away from the hospital.

About 1 a.m. on April 1, commandos in blacked-out Blackhawk helicopters and protected by low, slow-flying AC-130 gunships, swooped toward the hospital grounds. Marines fanned out as an exterior perimeter, while Army Rangers made a second protective shield just outside the hospital walls. These forces took light fire from adjacent buildings, according to military sources.

Commandos burst into the hospital, fired explosive charges meant to disorient anyone inside and headed for Lynch's room, according to U.S. accounts.

"We heard the helicopters and we decided we would go to the radiology unit," said Anmar Uday, a doctor, because the X-ray room was lined with lead.

The Iraqis heard shouts of "Go! Go! Go!" and soon the commandos were upon them. They said no shots were fired in the hospital and no one resisted, that there were only doctors and staff and a few hundred patients left. "It was like a 'Rambo' movie," Uday said. "But we were not Rambo. We just waited to be told what to do."

"There was not a firefight inside of the building, I will tell you, but there were firefights outside of the building, getting in and out," Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks told reporters at Central Command in Qatar.

The commandos found Lynch in a private room, atop the hospital's only bed used to ease the pain of bedsores, a special sand-filled tub. She was accompanied by a male nurse in a white jacket.

"Jessica Lynch, we're the United States soldiers and we're here to protect you and take you home," a Special Forces soldier called out, according to Air Force Maj. Gen. Victor E. Renuart Jr., who briefed reporters three days later.

"I'm an American soldier, too," she answered from her hospital bed.

Troops found "ammunition, mortars, maps, a terrain model and other things that make it very clear that it was being used as a military command post," Brooks said.

Saad Abdul Razaq, the hospital's assistant administrator, said he was corralled with others in a corner. "They were pointing a gun at me and I thought, it's all over, I'm going to die," he said.

Razaq and the hospital staff said the last Iraqi military and civilian leaders had fled the morning of the raid; they stripped off their green uniforms, abandoned their vehicles in the parking lot and disappeared. None of the hospital staff was injured during the rescue.

The U.S. troops recovered two American bodies from the morgue. Staff members escorted the Americans to a grave site outside the building, by a soccer field, where the bodies of seven U.S. soldiers were buried. The hospital staff said the bodies -- all members of Lynch's convoy -- were put under the earth because the morgue's faltering refrigerators could not slow decomposition. Navy SEALs dug the bodies up with their hands, according to military officials.

A few hours after the last members of Task Force 20 flew away in helicopters, a contingent of U.S. tanks and trucks rolled up to the hospital's front door without firing a shot.

Central Command's public affairs office in Qatar geared up to make the most of the rescue.

"We wanted to make sure we got whatever visuals were available," said one public affairs officer involved. The task force had photographed the rescue. Special Forces had already provided exclusive, opening-day video to the news media of Iraqi border posts being destroy by nighttime raids. That had been a hit, public affairs officers believed.

"We let them know, if possible we wanted to get it, we'd like to have" the video, said Lt. Col. John Robinson, a Central Command public affairs officer. "We were hoping we would have good visuals. We knew it would be the hottest thing of the day. There was not an intent to talk it down or embellish it because we didn't need to. It was an awesome story."

For the U.S. military and the American public, Lynch's rescue came as a joyous moment in one of the darkest hours of the war, when U.S. troops looked like they were going to be bogged down on their way to Baghdad. But the rescue had gone off without a hitch.

"It took on a life of its own," said one colonel who tried to answer the barrage of media queries. "Reporters seem to be reporting on each other's information. The rescue turned into a Hollywood concept."

Making Progress

After her rescue, nowhere was the joy greater than in Lynch's home town of tiny Palestine, W.Va., where Greg and Deadra Lynch had struggled to stay hopeful as days slipped by without news of their missing daughter.

The family's elation was tempered when it discovered the true extent of Lynch's injuries upon reaching her bedside at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany.

At Walter Reed, Lynch's bones have been put back together with such a delicate and extensive network of rods and pins that it can take an hour for her to move from bed to wheelchair.

"She is still struggling with pain and her recovery will be slow," said family spokesman Randy Coleman. Her mother said, "It's amazing she can walk at all -- she is a body full of pins and screws," Coleman recounted.

Still, Lynch is making progress. She recently walked more than 100 steps using a walker. "She works hard at physical therapy. She doesn't sit around and complain. She is certainly determined to get well," said Walter Reed spokeswoman Beverly Chidel.

People who have seen her said she is psychologically traumatized, and appears somewhat dazed, though she is better now than in the early weeks. Recently she has talked on the phone to friends and sent e-mails from her laptop.

Booth reported from Nasiriyah, interviewing Iraqi doctors and nurses in the hospitals where Lynch was treated, and Iraqi citizens who witnessed elements of the initial capture. Priest and Schmidt reported from Washington, interviewing military and intelligence officials with detailed knowledge of Lynch's capture and rescue, as well as officials close to the Lynch family

[Emperor_Mike]

In any case, the story is nothing more than a rehash of everything we've heard before with a few new bits thrown in for good measure. How this "clears up" the "BS" from the BBC and "other media sources" I have no idea. Personally, I prefer my news to contain at the very least two parts truth. I suppose some of us can think for ourselves while others...

...well...the less said the better. :lol:

[rakovlam]

In any case, the story is nothing more than a rehash of everything we've heard before with a few new bits thrown in for good measure. How this "clears up" the "BS" from the BBC and "other media sources" I have no idea. Personally, I prefer my news to contain at the very least two parts truth. I suppose some of us can think for ourselves while others...

...well...the less said the better. 

Finish your sentence because I'd like to hear it.

This seems to be the most accurate account I can find. No she did not get shot or fought fiercely. I don't know how CBS is going to make a book or movie out of this. No US troops did not stage the rescue. Those "blanks" that BBC claimed US troops were using were never found (if anything it's probably flashbangs). Maybe I'm not into conspiracy theories but I don't have time to believe that all of media is lying to the public.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by rakovlam@Jun 17 2003, 01:43 PM
In any case, the story is nothing more than a rehash of everything we've heard before with a few new bits thrown in for good measure. How this "clears up" the "BS" from the BBC and "other media sources" I have no idea. Personally, I prefer my news to contain at the very least two parts truth. I suppose some of us can think for ourselves while others...

...well...the less said the better.

Finish your sentence because I'd like to hear it.

This seems to be the most accurate account I can find. No she did not get shot or fought fiercely. I don't know how CBS is going to make a book or movie out of this. No US troops did not stage the rescue. Those "blanks" that BBC claimed US troops were using were never found (if anything it's probably flashbangs). Maybe I'm not into conspiracy theories but I don't have time to believe that all of media is lying to the public.
Perhaps a little bit of effort on your part to finish the sentence would be nice. Surely you don't need me to point out EVERYTHING that's blatantly obvious do you? I know I'm getting rather tired of doing so. ;)

Anyway, friendly jabs aside, you can do better than the Washington Post. Hopefully you're not stubborn and stupid enough to believe that the local media will report on the truth when national events that require the full support of the homeland are concerned. How do you think Germans would have reacted if Goebbels or Hitler gave a speech over the radio on how the Soviets are pushing back the Wehrmact and would soon be at the gates of Berlin? You may not have time to believe in conspiracy theories (then again who does?) but surely you're not blind to the conflicting reports coming out left, right and centre. To write them off is to be in denial indeed. How will you handle different opinions in the work force if the ideal you hold so dear is in fact erroneous? Deny it, give faulty reasons and throw slanted reports at your co-workers? I don't think so.

Examine the stories, form your own opinions and then tell us what you think with concrete evidence that actually HAS substance to back your views. The Washington Post article is great and all and I like reading things from both sides of the spectrum, but I'm not in the habit of fooling myself into thinking that everything's "as it should be."

It'd be disastrous in the long run.

[pfc beansprout]

Originally posted by rakovlam@Jun 17 2003, 04:43 PM
In any case, the story is nothing more than a rehash of everything we've heard before with a few new bits thrown in for good measure. How this "clears up" the "BS" from the BBC and "other media sources" I have no idea. Personally, I prefer my news to contain at the very least two parts truth. I suppose some of us can think for ourselves while others...

...well...the less said the better.

Finish your sentence because I'd like to hear it.

This seems to be the most accurate account I can find. No she did not get shot or fought fiercely. I don't know how CBS is going to make a book or movie out of this. No US troops did not stage the rescue. Those "blanks" that BBC claimed US troops were using were never found (if anything it's probably flashbangs). Maybe I'm not into conspiracy theories but I don't have time to believe that all of media is lying to the public.
Those "blanks" that BBC claimed US troops were using were never found (if anything it's probably flashbangs)


and being in the army..can you please tell me what is a "flashbang????"

[rakovlam]

Examine the stories, form your own opinions and then tell us what you think with concrete evidence that actually HAS substance to back your views.

Oh god, do I really have to go through this again? Since school is pretty much over, here's an excerpt:


This is how I concluded that the BBC story was misleading, the claim that blanks were used inside the hospital.

The Washington Post article says that no shots were fired. But assuming there was, how do you get authentic weapons to fire blanks? First, you will need to install a BFA into your rifle. It's a safety feature used in training to prove that there isn't any live ammo in the gun, nor would any come out. They look like this:

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-14/f2314009.gif

Now after looking at footage from CBS of the rescue, I can say that no BFA's were attached to the end of the guns. If enemy forces did show up, then the troops with their guns calibrated to fire blanks would be screwed. Not a chance that happened. What about guns used in Hollywood films? They don't have BFA's. For one thing, they're fakes (and automatic weapons are illegal in the US since the 1920's). No one in the army carries those. What about those blank casings I was talking about? They're slightly different from live casings. That should be the smoking gun (no pun intended) the BBC needs to validate its story. Also, I am reinforced by my belief that ANY state funded media should not be trusted (I don't trust private media completely either, but I'm saying more distrust for the former).

As a bonus:

Witnesses told us that the special forces knew that the Iraqi military had fled a day before they swooped on the hospital.

How did Iraqi civilians know what Special Forces know? Not even the imbeded journalists know whta Special Forces know.

You want more?

[rakovlam]

and being in the army..can you please tell me what is a "flashbang????"

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-23.30/fig1-13.gif

The M84 stun hand grenade. A handheld device used deliver a loud bang and bright flash to temporarily dissorient people. Us simple civilians like to call them flashbangs since we do nothing but play Counter-Strike all day. But unlike many of them, I like to do research.

[pfc beansprout]

Now after looking at footage from CBS of the rescue, I can say that no BFA's were attached to the end of the guns. If enemy forces did show up, then the troops with their guns calibrated to fire blanks would be screwed. Not a chance that happened. What about guns used in Hollywood films? They don't have BFA's. For one thing, they're fakes (and automatic weapons are illegal in the US since the 1920's). No one in the army carries those. What about those blank casings I was talking about? They're slightly different from live casings. That should be the smoking gun (no pun intended) the BBC needs to validate its story. Also, I am reinforced by my belief that ANY state funded media should not be trusted (I don't trust private media completely either, but I'm saying more distrust for the former).


ummm..yeah buddy...you can shoot blanks w/o those safety surpressors (sp?) on...those things are merely for safety, and if the millitary wanted to disguise their events, this is one detail they have done....umm..yeah, we have trained shooting blanks w/those off there...so it can be done buddy....

[myself808]

How is CBS going to make this a blockbuster? Viacom - owner of CBS will have Viacom-owned book publisher Simon&Schuster give her a book deal, Have viacom-owned MTV will offer a Ja Rule concert in her home town, and a "inspirational" (read: make shit up) Viacom-owned CBS made for TV movie. Just for an exclusive Viacom-owned CBS News interview.

One stop shopping. Isn't Mega-media wonderful?

article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2907-2003Jun16.html?nav=hptop_ts)

CBS News Defends Its Multi-Pronged Pitch to Lynch
By Lisa de Moraes
Tuesday, June 17, 2003; Page C01

Viacom-owned CBS News said it did nothing wrong when it held out the possibility of TV movie, concert special and book deals with other Viacom divisions in its pitch to land an interview with Pfc. Jessica Lynch.

The news operation insists it made very clear in its letters to the former prisoner of war in Iraq that "we never tie interview requests to entertainment projects."

And yet, letters sent on April 17 from CBS News Senior Vice President Betsy West mention Viacom-owned Simon & Schuster being "extremely interested" in a book about Lynch, and a possible MTV special featuring a concert in Lynch's home town of Palestine, W.Va., "by a current star act such as Ashanti, and perhaps Ja Rule." There's also talk of an "inspirational" CBS Sunday movie about Lynch, a CBS News spokeswoman acknowledged yesterday.

Two more letters, sent May 12 from correspondent Jane Clayson, focused exclusively on the news interview, the CBS News rep told The TV Column.

Word of the letters was first reported in yesterday's New York Times. "From the distinguished reporting of CBS News to the youthful reach of MTV, we believe this is a unique combination of projects that will do justice to Jessica's inspiring story," one letter said, according to the Times report.

Lynch, who became something of a national darling after her capture in southern Iraq, has yet to speak publicly about her imprisonment and subsequent rescue by Marines from an Iraqi hospital.

CBS News yesterday responded aggressively to the Times story; it played the Jayson Blair card:

"Unlike the New York Times' own ethical problems, there is no question about the accuracy or integrity of CBS News' reporting," it said by way of opening its lengthy statement addressing yesterday's front-page article. The reference, of course, is to the New York Times reporter who was booted for fabricating some stories and plagiarizing others. The careers of the paper's executive editor, Howell Raines, and managing editor, Gerald Boyd, were caught in the downward flush of Blair's.

Blair, of course, did not report the story on CBS's Lynch interview request. The reporter was Jim Rutenberg, who directed our call for comment to New York Times Co. public relations director Toby Usnik, who said:

"Per your query, we believe our coverage was thorough, accurate and fair -- and fully representative of the complete document in our possession."

As part of its the-best-defense-is-a-good-offense approach, CBS News yesterday directed reporters to public affairs officer Beverly Chidel at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where Lynch is recuperating. Chidel told The TV Column -- as she told the Associated Press and presumably other Reporters Who Cover Television stalking this story -- that CBS was not the only news operation that had dangled possible entertainment and/or book deals in pitches sent to Lynch in care of the hospital.

"Most had an entertainment tie-in . . . or connection," Chidel said, adding that Lynch "got a tub of stuff."

"A lot of them did have entertainment offers; you had to scroll down -- they were not at the top -- 'here's what this network can do; we can do this or that.' There was nothing illegal, and even offering the book is not illegal or unethical," Chidel said. "But she can't accept anything of a commercial nature while still a private. But if news wants to do an interview for '60 Minutes' or 'Nightline' or the 'Today' show, that's fine; I'm happy to set it up," Chidel offered.

But she could not provide specifics on the various news operations' pitches, explaining that the letters poured in two months ago when Lynch was admitted to the hospital.

The other networks, needless to say, didn't much appreciate that CBS News had dragged them into this story. "We don't bundle and it's wrong to say we do," a miffed NBC News spokeswoman told The TV Column.

"ABC News made a very straightforward news pitch to Jessica Lynch to interview her across a number of ABC News broadcasts. That was the extent of what [ABC News] offered," added an irked ABC suit.

Indeed, a copy of a draft letter to Lynch sent by ABC News Editorial Projects Director Virginia Moseley and obtained by The TV Column includes no mention of a book deal with Hyperion, which, like ABC, is owned by Disney. Neither is there a "Wonderful World of Disney" movie nor even the hope of a guest appearance on "The Bachelor."

CBS in its statement also wondered rhetorically why lines in West's letters such as "CBS News maintains editorial independence from the entertainment division" and "we wanted to make sure that CBS News' proposal was being considered as a single entity," "mysteriously" did not make their way into the Times story.

But the network mysteriously would not make copies of the letters available to the press yesterday.

One seasoned veteran of the news wars -- Anonymity Requested -- suggested that both sides acted in a less than perfect fashion. The New York Times, after getting the "[poop] kicked out of them" by the Blair affair, had put on its front page a story that Anonymity Requested thinks had no business being there, in an effort to point out that other media operations are indiscreet.

CBS is guilty at the very least of gross stupidity, Mr. Requested continued, because while "you could argue there is less hypocrisy in one person [at Viacom] putting it all in one letter," ultimately, "it's all about perception."

"I would go for hypocrisy with the face at least of a separation of church and state," he said.

Other news veterans agreed.

"Trying to present as a package is an old practice," said one news executive who also requested anonymity.

"What makes it bigger and bigger now is this widespread aspect, that the company now has tentacles in a lot of areas," the exec continued, referring to the ownership of CBS by Viacom, of ABC by Disney, of NBC by General Electric, of Fox and Fox News Channel by News Corp., and CNN by AOL Time Warner.

"The idea of these companies is to get [the story] and get it in a way where they own it. It's the way it is now -- the business is synergistic," he said.

"They justify it by saying we're giving them one-stop shopping so [interviewees] don't have to be bothered by 84 different people."

But generally, the suit confided, these pitches are done more discreetly and circuitously, "so that if it ever gets public it's protected from you wolves," he told The TV Column.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by rakovlam@Jun 17 2003, 03:59 PM

Oh god, do I really have to go through this again? Since school is pretty much over, here's an excerpt:


This is how I concluded that the BBC story was misleading, the claim that blanks were used inside the hospital.

The Washington Post article says that no shots were fired. But assuming there was, how do you get authentic weapons to fire blanks? First, you will need to install a BFA into your rifle. It's a safety feature used in training to prove that there isn't any live ammo in the gun, nor would any come out. They look like this:

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-14/f2314009.gif

Now after looking at footage from CBS of the rescue, I can say that no BFA's were attached to the end of the guns. If enemy forces did show up, then the troops with their guns calibrated to fire blanks would be screwed. Not a chance that happened. What about guns used in Hollywood films? They don't have BFA's. For one thing, they're fakes (and automatic weapons are illegal in the US since the 1920's). No one in the army carries those. What about those blank casings I was talking about? They're slightly different from live casings. That should be the smoking gun (no pun intended) the BBC needs to validate its story. Also, I am reinforced by my belief that ANY state funded media should not be trusted (I don't trust private media completely either, but I'm saying more distrust for the former).

As a bonus:



How did Iraqi civilians know what Special Forces know? Not even the imbeded journalists know whta Special Forces know.

You want more?
Hmmm...for the first time since we started debating on issues you've given me something good to work with. Discounting PFCBeanSprout's comments for the time being, I think this is definitely worth examining. However, suppose that the Jessica Lynch incident *was* in fact a production of some sort meant for the sole purpose of propaganda and that it was, let us assume, planned to take advantage of an unfortunate accident. What is the to say that the White House didn't go through the trouble of obtaining film quality artificial weapons for use in the "operation?" Surely, if Washington was so inclined, they could've initiated the steps to bring such items into play for the sole purpose of going through with their alleged stunt.

I will think this over and do a bit of research myself (like you, school is done for me.)

Good work!

[Emperor_Mike]

Was there any mention of where the firing of weapons occurred, by the way? Outside? Inside? And did any of the articles mention just how the Iraqi eyewitnesses came the conclusion that blanks were being used? If there weren't any Iraqi troops in the area, why was there a need to spend ammunition?

Rakovlam, the information you've provided is a good start, but it isn't enough to paint a clearer picture of what might've happened. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever reach a point where something definitive can be reached so conjecture on both sides is the most we can accomplish at this juncture.

[etcj]

Doesn't this remind you of all the Olympic gymnasts? You have some scrawny injured white girl who is declared a national hero because they got hurt. Hmm...

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by etcj@Jun 17 2003, 09:41 PM
Doesn't this remind you of all the Olympic gymnasts? You have some scrawny injured white girl who is declared a national hero because they got hurt. Hmm...
I remember her. Kerry Strug, right? Twisted her ankle and still won the gold. Where did she disappear to I wonder?

In any case, this Jessica Lynch thing is too vague to draw any conclusion on. Rakovlam's post on US troop weapons requiring a BFA to fire blanks is legitimate and not just a wildly off-base commentary (i.e. this is a live one.) But the fact that the public cannot view the full unedited Pentagon footage (matters of military security, I understand the need for that) only makes the whole thing seem more, for the lack of a better word, "mysterious."

There allegedly was a firefight and we can only assume that it took place outside since the public filming of the video was only of the rescue post-assault, if I recall correctly. The Iraqi doctor mentioned blanks, but it's likely that he was probably mistaken. If this thing really was a production of some sort, US soldiers could have just as easily fired off live rounds in the air to create the "sounds of battle" and the rushed into the hospital to complete their task. Hmmm...

I don't know. This is one issue that's not so much based on working with facts than it is an exercise at groping around in the dark for something that may or may not be there. I think we should all hold off on forming any further thoughts on this and see what's going to happen.

[ren28]

One could just as easily fire off rounds of plastic bullets in 5.56mm caliber through an M4 or M16. I've fired those off myself. I'm not saying this is what happened but just about anything could have happened since we don't know anyone that was there.

[achtungbaby]

Family Says Lynch Memoir Reveals Rape

By ALLISON BARKER, Associated Press Writer

PALESTINE, W.Va. - The authorized biography of former prisoner of war Pfc. Jessica Lynch says she was raped by her Iraqi captors, a family spokesman said Thursday.

"The book does cover the subject," spokesman Stephen Goodwin told The Associated Press. "It's a very difficult subject."

The book — "I am a Soldier, Too: The Jessica Lynch Story" — is being released by Knopf publishing on Tuesday, Veterans Day. Reporter Rick Bragg, who wrote the book, tells Lynch's story.

Medical records cited in the book indicate that she was raped, the Daily News of New York reported in its Thursday editions. Officials have said Lynch has no memory of her ordeal.

"Jessi lost three hours. She lost them in the snapping bones, in the crash of the Humvee, in the torment her enemies inflicted on her after she was pulled from it," writes Bragg, according to the Daily News, which obtained a copy of the book.

"The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead," Bragg continues.

On ABC's "Good Morning America" host Diane Sawyer also gave details of the contents.

"The book does indeed cite some intelligence reports that she was treated brutally and a medical record which says, in the book, that she was a victim of a sodomizing rape," Sawyer said.

In confirming the reports, family spokesman Goodwin told the AP: "It's important to tell the story and let it be known, but she's not going to talk about it any more."

Another family representative said it was unfortunate attention was being focused on one incident.

"The complete story of her capture is a very painful one for Jessica," family spokeswoman Aly Goodwin Gregg told the AP. "However, she felt it was important to tell her story so that people fully understand the atrocities of war. But her story is more than just one incident."

Knopf spokesman Paul Bogaards would not elaborate, telling The Associated Press that it was "just one chapter in a vivid story of a soldier's life."

Bragg declined to comment to the AP.

Sawyer's interview with Lynch will air Tuesday in a special edition of ABC's "Primetime."

Sawyer also addressed reports that Lynch's book casts doubt on the claim of an Iraqi lawyer, Muhammad al-Rehaief, that he helped U.S. Marines rescue Lynch.

"She says that he may indeed have helped her," Sawyer said. "If he did, she's grateful, but she simply does not remember him and she remembers most everybody that she spent time with during her hospital captivity."

Lynch, 20, was shipped to Kuwait in January with the 507th Maintenance Company. She was captured March 23 after her convoy was ambushed in the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah. She was rescued from an Iraqi hospital April 1 by U.S. forces.

full story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20031106/ap_on_re_us/lynch_book)

[deez nuts]

buncha savages.

[kimpossible]

Poor thing. It's got to be hard having this in the public eye.

[achtungbaby]

buncha savages.Who? The Iraqi's that sodomized her or those higher up in the chain of command who ordered her to be there in the first place...? :eek:

[deez nuts]

the iraqis

[Faithless]

Is this story in any way going to re-open discussions about a woman's role in the military -- especially in the field of combat?

[kimpossible]

Why because we stand the chance of being raped just like we do every day of our lives?

[Craig]

I really don't feel like saying much, but ...

{ As noted from another site } Anybody care to check on when the domains of "jessicalynch.org" and "jessicalynch.net" were registered ?

If it looks like jingoistic American lies and propaganda, smells like jingoistic American lies and propaganda, and sounds like jingoistic American lies and propaganda ...

[thaite]

I don't see why it would be lies. In the Gulf War, a woman pilot was shot down, captured and raped as well. Upon her return, she chose to play down the incident, partly because she did not want to reopen a discussion of women's role in the military.

Even further back than the Gulf War, everybody knew that rape of POWs (includig men) was a common occurance and par for the course in Iraq. Stands to reason they knew that this time as well.

[Danny]

I really don't feel like saying much, but ...

{ As noted from another site } Anybody care to check on when the domains of "jessicalynch.org" and "jessicalynch.net" were registered ?

If it looks like jingoistic American lies and propaganda, smells like jingoistic American lies and propaganda, and sounds like jingoistic American lies and propaganda ...

yeah that coming soon flashing at the top just makes me think nothing but jingostic American lies and propoganda, or was it the register.com logo in the far right corner?

Damn those jingoistic bastards putting a search box on there to....

[pfc beansprout]

I don't see why it would be lies. In the Gulf War, a woman pilot was shot down, captured and raped as well. Upon her return, she chose to play down the incident, partly because she did not want to reopen a discussion of women's role in the military.

Even further back than the Gulf War, everybody knew that rape of POWs (includig men) was a common occurance and par for the course in Iraq. Stands to reason they knew that this time as well.

errr...gonna have to go w/craig here....dunno man, that may have happened, but statistically speaking (i guess for "the women's cause too, who knows), in regards to women in danger of being raped as pows...during the first gulf war, there were more cases and incidents of sexual harassment AND rape amongst the american troops than enemy's....just a thought.....

[pfc beansprout]

~oh, btw, i don't believe lynch was raped either...

[Craig]

yeah that coming soon flashing at the top just makes me think nothing but jingostic American lies and propoganda, or was it the register.com logo in the far right corner?

Damn those jingoistic bastards putting a search box on there to....

If you care to read what I said, and check with the Internet domain registry, you can see that the domains were registered about 1 week before any incident in Iraq.

Another reason why I doubt she was raped, (while not having read the book)was the reports that I have seen on the Internet have all made claims to her being raped anally only. I don't know what is going on in a rapist's mind; However, I would think if they had a woman captive and were planning on having sex with her, I don't think they would only rape her up the ass, but not touch anything else.

[thaite]

errr...gonna have to go w/craig here....dunno man, that may have happened, but statistically speaking (i guess for "the women's cause too, who knows), in regards to women in danger of being raped as pows...during the first gulf war, there were more cases and incidents of sexual harassment AND rape amongst the american troops than enemy's....just a thought.....

We're not talking about sexual harrassment between US troops, we're talking about POWs being raped.

[SunWuKong]

there are probably plenty of other stories that are worse. but here we have it, the story of a blonde-haired white girl, glorified.

[applehead]

isn't this kind of... expected?

[pfc beansprout]

We're not talking about sexual harrassment between US troops, we're talking about POWs being raped.



umm..did u not see the "and?"

[ism]

In her first public statements since her rescue in Iraq, Jessica Lynch criticized the military for exaggerating accounts of her rescue and re-casting her ordeal as a patriotic fable.

Asked by the ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer if the military's portrayal of the rescue bothered her, Ms. Lynch said: "Yeah, it does. It does that they used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff. Yeah, it's wrong," according to a partial transcript of the interview to be broadcast on Tuesday.

article (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/07/national/07LYNC.html?ex=1068872400&en=456dd578d7db397b&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE)

[mr. x]

well i brought this up a while ago, and nobody (in the media) wanted to use the R word of course

[Hanuman]

Another reason why I doubt she was raped, (while not having read the book)was the reports that I have seen on the Internet have all made claims to her being raped anally only. I don't know what is going on in a rapist's mind; However, I would think if they had a woman captive and were planning on having sex with her, I don't think they would only rape her up the ass, but not touch anything else.

The article uses the term "sodomizing rape", and that's not as clear a cut as most people think. I wonder by what defination they are going by, because in NY penal law, crime of sodomy is defined three ways -

Contact between Penis and mouth,
contact between penis and anus,
contact between mouth and vulva.

So it's not necessary the act of "raping" someone anally. Rape in NY is defined as use of force to achieve intercourse, by any penetration of penis to vagina. Sodomizing rape is still vague, although by any definition it isn't great.

[VV o n g B a]

Jessica Lynch laments military portrayal


- - - - - - - - - - - -
ASSOCIATED PRESS



Nov. 7, 2003 | PALESTINE, W.Va. (AP) -- Former prisoner of war Jessica Lynch said the U.S. military was wrong to manipulate the story of her dramatic rescue and should not have filmed it in the first place.

The 20-year-old private told ABC's Diane Sawyer in a "Primetime" interview to air Tuesday that she was bothered by the military's portrayal of her ordeal.

"They used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff," she said in an excerpt from the interview, posted Friday on the network's Web site.

"It hurt in a way that people would make up stories that they had no truth about," she said.

She also said there was no reason for her rescue from an Iraqi hospital to be filmed. "It's wrong," she said.

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/11/07/lynch_portrayal/index.html

[kimpossible]

Okay, now I'm looking at this in a whole new light after reading this thread. Go YW.

[Faithless]

Why because we stand the chance of being raped just like we do every day of our lives?

Well, the situation lends itself that sort of discussion. You know, the whole "vulnerability of women in the field of combat" thing -- as in --

"See what we can expect when our service women get captured? Do we really want to subject ourselves as a country to this level of torment? It is hard enough dealing with this issue when it hits close to home, only to have it magnified on the battle field."

(Just playing the other side.)

[Danny]

article (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/07/national/07LYNC.html?ex=1068872400&en=456dd578d7db397b&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE)

The media searches to make heroes out of people... they did that with the dumbass that got shot down in Bosnia and lived off of bugs for two weeks... they are doing it with her also....

[ChinaLama]

Well, the situation lends itself that sort of discussion. You know, the whole "vulnerability of women in the field of combat" thing -- as in --

"See what we can expect when our service women get captured? Do we really want to subject ourselves as a country to this level of torment? It is hard enough dealing with this issue when it hits close to home, only to have it magnified on the battle field."

(Just playing the other side.)

well, like someone else said. men get raped in POW camps, too. So if they really wanted to solve these sorts of issues, they'd have to convert the army to all-mechs. If a country is going to get "tormented" because it's soldiers are being raped, tortured, or killed, then that country is pretty much a goner. So the other side is going to have to do better than that particular argument.

[achtungbaby]

Moving to Rant

[kitty]

The article uses the term "sodomizing rape", and that's not as clear a cut as most people think. I wonder by what defination they are going by, because in NY penal law, crime of sodomy is defined three ways -

Contact between Penis and mouth,
contact between penis and anus,
contact between mouth and vulva.

So it's not necessary the act of "raping" someone anally. Rape in NY is defined as use of force to achieve intercourse, by any penetration of penis to vagina. Sodomizing rape is still vague, although by any definition it isn't great.

the original definition of sodomy is "sex for pleaure rather than procreation" -- i.e. any sexual act that isn't inherently procreative, such as oral or anal sex. That's what's in the bible anyways. Most sodomy laws nowadays are often only enforced when prosecuting homosexual acts.

[angel nympho]

I doubt that's true. I really cannot believe that this woman is capitalizing on a lie. Yeah, she was taken, but dude... torture my ASS. I read a report that said some Iraqi woman in the hospital she was taken to sang her to sleep every night.

[nonamerasian]

I don't think she is lying.

[Faithless]

If she is lying, what's the reasoning?

To sell her book? To aid in US efforts to continue in Iraq?

[nonamerasian]

That is why I have no reason to think she's lying, yet.

If anything, it seems she is becoming vocal about the lying by the military about her ordeal.

[mr. x]

well i duno why she'd lie cuz she just SAID that the whole thing is blown out of proportion

"oh by the way i was raped"

[Faithless]

That is why I have no reason to think she's lying, yet.

If anything, it seems she is becoming vocal about the lying by the military about her ordeal.

It would be reprehensible if she were lying.

I would tend to believe her.

Still you never know -- this could be one of those emotional issues that our government clings to as a -- ""See! More the reason why we should be over there kicking ass!"

[ellsworth81]

i may not have all the facts, but does anyone really? usually, i'd read up on this before i'd say anything, but since this is a rant, i don't really need to.

what is the big fuckin' deal? there aren't heroes in wars - just survivors. granted, she risked her life going into combat, but why does she get the million dollar book deal and some tv movie, and all her fellow soldiers get is dead?

and i think she does have motivation to or exaggerate and/or lie. she gets a lil more time in the spotlight, and the wouldn't mind a little help in fanning those dying flames of war. "dem dirty Iranians" violated America's sweetheart, and maybe those ignant Americans out there may perk up their eyes and give this war effort another look.

But why tell the entire nation about it? i suppose there is some benefit in finding the courage to let others know about and to get it off your chest ... but the question remains ..... why?

and before i get flamed for being some heartless chauvinist, i don't condone rape. but nowadays, i have to stop and think about anything that has any relationship with this war.

[Faithless]

I hate to ask this -- but does this story with Ms. Lynch make her appear sexier with any dudes?

[mr. x]

I hate to ask this -- but does this story with Ms. Lynch make her appear sexier with any dudes?

?!?!

rape is rape man

course i heard in the Paris Hilton tape she's passed out practically and i know that wont stop guys from watching it

[jimbo]

It is a coincidence that this suddenly comes out just as her book about her experiences is about to be published.

Nothing like a small teaser to get people to buy the book now is there?

[Hanuman]

It would be reprehensible if she were lying.

I would tend to believe her.

Still you never know -- this could be one of those emotional issues that our government clings to as a -- ""See! More the reason why we should be over there kicking ass!"

Didn't she say she couldn't remember if she had been raped? So she never claims to have been raped, only that if she was, she doesn't remember it.

[pfc beansprout]

~now that we've heard jessica's take on the whole shabang, where's rakovlam been to fire this up again? :rolleyes:

[pfc beansprout]

i'm not buyin this temporary "memory loss" either...i'm smellin conspiracy, and it don't smell pretty....

[Bhodi_Li]

The common perception over here among the soldiers deployed is that she has gotten MORE than her fair share of publicity for not ever firing a shot while her fellow soldiers did and died. Maybe that's unfair, but I share this view. However, I'm sure her book will sell just fine. Time for me to get back to work and get my unit ready for our movement into Iraq from Kuwait. Arrowhead 4 alpha ...out.

[Bhodi_Li]

there are probably plenty of other stories that are worse. but here we have it, the story of a blonde-haired white girl, glorified.
Good point. There were six other soldiers that were captured. Why is she getting so much attention? Why has she been painted as the American hero? Every soldier that has been killed in an IED (improvised Explosive Device), in a mortar attack, in a convoy, beheaded by a rope strung across bridge pillars, etc. have given just as much for their country if not MORE. Every soldier that is STILL there despite having been shot, every soldier who patrols the streets of Fallujuah, Baghdad, Tikrit, Kirkuk and knows that there are snipers that will shoot them through the neck (since our armor protects our main body), are damn heroes. Hell even the ones that are working in Kuwait who will NEVER cross the border (or over the berm as we say) into Iraq are heroes. The whole Jessica Lynch thing just really gets under my skin. There are so many damn stories of heroes that go untold.... because they're heroes and don't need their stories told. The other real heroes are the families that keep sending the kids to school and make sure the mortgages are paid. Ok, I'm stepping off of my soap box now. Sorry.

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

I'm kind of up in the air about what happened or not. I'm inclined to think she did not get raped, but I'm not absolutely sure. She doesn't even make the claim. It's all in some record. Maybe they found semen. Who knows. At least one of the Female POWs from the last Gulf War reporedt that she was raped by her captors. It's not some intrinsically lavish embellishment to what could have happened to her.

Rape is a definite problem in any prolonged military conflict, and I think the risk is especially high when there are women in combat situations full of hate and adrenaline.

In general, I'm not surprised by this Jessica Lynch hoopla. She's sort of pretty. She went through some shit. We're an overfed nation in need of entertainment and heroes. Also, as a country, we really don't like dark-skinned people. Of course her story's going to get blown out of proportion. If not by the government, the circus would be led by other elements of our society. It was the media who dug her photo up and started really churning up the waterworks over her. We're the ones who kept watching the news and rewarding that allocation of attention. The government just took advantage of that interest.

None of us are blameless. It's not necessarily a conspiracy or some coked up lie by the government. It's could just be American ignorance, racism, and the free-market all working their sexy magic.


buncha savages.
Like American soldiers haven't raped anybody in our recent history. There's a whole bunch of people in Japan, Korea and the Phillipines who have the same things to say about our boys.

[applehead]

there are probably plenty of other stories that are worse. but here we have it, the story of a blonde-haired white girl, glorified.


you know rad.
i thought she did something spectacular.
but all she did was get caught by the
iraqi's and then was rescued by other soldiers.
and a tv movie was made about it?
it sounds pretty ridiculous.

i'd rather watch the elizabeth smart
story.

[SunWuKong]

Using Jessica Lynch

Posted: August 26, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 David H. Hackworth

Jessica Lynch recently was awarded a Bronze Star Medal, a Purple Heart and the POW Medal. The BSM citation reads: "For exemplary courage under fire during combat operations to liberate Iraq, in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Private First Class Lynch's bravery and heart persevered while surviving in the ambush and captivity in An Nasiriya."

A BSM for "bravery" and "surviving in the ambush and captivity"!

The Army's official After-Action Report said she was in a vehicle that crashed while hauling butt trying to escape an enemy ambush. She was knocked unconscious and woke up at a nearby Iraqi hospital receiving special attention from some super-caring Iraqi doctors and nurses.

This was probably the first incident in U.S. military history in which an American soldier was awarded our country's fourth-highest ground-fighting award for being conked out and off the air throughout a fight.

BSMs citing bravery typically read: "Moving his machine gun to a forward vantage point, he covered the advance of the infantry with a heavy volume of effective fire. Repeatedly exposing himself to a devastating small-arms automatic weapons and mortar barrage ..." Or: "He voluntarily acted as point man and ... when the platoon was fired upon ... charged the enemy position ... Through his courage, determination and devotion to duty, he saved his patrol from suffering casualties and captured a prisoner who later provided important information."


more... (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34272)

[SunWuKong]

you know, i feel bad for her, i really do. she's pretty much just a normal girl. what annoys me to no end is that the government and the media is giving her all this attention while there are probably those who are more deserving. it's such bullshit. it's all because she's a blonde-haired white girl.

=========================================

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2798.html

On Shoshana Johnson, Jessica Lynch and Disability
In Dissent, Number One Hundred and Forty
by Brian S. Wise
28 October 2003

Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch were wounded in the exact same battle; why is one getting more in disability than the other?

“Shot through both legs and held prisoner in Iraq for 22 days, [Army Specialist] Shoshana Johnson returned home in the spring to a difficult convalescence that lacked the media fury and official hype that attended her friend and comrade in arms, Jessica Lynch,” reported the Washington Post last Friday. A regrettable circumstance of a regrettable incident, the 507th Maintenance Company’s wandering off course in Nasiriyah and being ambushed last March twenty-third. “Depressed, scared, haunted by the trauma of her captivity and at times unable to sleep, Johnson walks with a limp and has difficulty standing for long, according to her parents.” Also most regrettable.

“And now that Johnson is on the verge of her discharge from the Army, insult is being added to her injury, [the Johnsons] say. While Lynch was discharged as a private first class in August with an 80 percent disability benefit, Johnson, set to leave in the coming days, learned last week that she will receive a 30 percent disability benefit for the Army for her injuries.” The difference is palpable, but not merely financial. It’s true Lynch’s monthly disability will exceed Johnson’s by as much as $700, but put the money aside for a moment and think about what it means, ideologically, when a soldier who was practically sitting next to an eventual media darling at the time of the ambush cannot merit the same consideration as the current day celebrity.

We cannot say whether Shoshana Johnson wanted or expected the media fury that enveloped Lynch, or even a book deal. (One suspects not; Johnson has had the good sense to avoid the national media thus far, though it would be nice to hear the story of the entire 507th as opposed to one capture and rescue.) We also cannot say whether Johnson was afforded similar community pleasantries compared to Lynch, but those were hometown movements impossible to intellectually transfer from city to city. We can say both Johnson and Lynch came about their injuries in the same attack and battle, so there is some wisdom in wondering why one person will receive $125 per week for suffering serious injuries and why the other will receive $375 per week for suffering serious injuries.

Enter Jesse Jackson, at the behest of the Johnson family. Jackson is pretty good at thinking and talking about other people’s money, but even better at getting money out of people and organizations who have no interest in giving it away. “Race clearly is a factor. Here’s a case of two women, same [unit], same war; everything about their service commitment and their risk is equal … Yet there’s an enormous contrast between how the military handled the two cases.”

Well, you should be skeptical enough of Jackson by now to consider the first part typical race baiting of the Jackson tradition and par for the course; the implication suggests nothing other than an institutional racism was at work in the decision, something Jackson cannot prove, but that is illogical besides. Surely there are some black soldiers collecting more in military disability than some whites and vice versa, some whites collecting more than some Hispanics and vice versa, right on down the line.

Despite that, Jackson was right to say there was clearly an “enormous contrast” between the handling of Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch, which is problematic because it at least hints to racism and other dishonesties, something the military doesn’t need at any time, but now especially. It should be said: I have absolutely no knowledge of the processes employed when it’s decided which wounded veteran is entitled to what amount of disability pay; of course it’s possible that many factors unknown to me were taken into account when it came to Shoshana Johnson. Certainly it’s impractical to suggest every soldier wounded in Iraq should proportionately be allowed what Jessica Lynch was allowed, but how consistent are the current standards?

If you believe the military as a whole is an honorable institution that acts in the country’s best interests – and therefore has a vested interest in treating all its soldiers (active, discharged and wounded) fairly – then equal consideration should be lent in equal matters. Given that Shoshana Johnson was actually shot in combat alongside Jessica Lynch, who wasn’t, that she was held for nearly two weeks after Lynch was rescued and has a child to support, Johnson’s actually seems a superior argument for greater compensation than Lynch’s, and should be reevaluated before an unfortunate, if unintentional, moral mistake is made.

Brian Wise is the lead columnist for IntellectualConservative.com.

[kitty]

I dunno... Wise's dismissal of it as not a race-based inconsistency smacks a bit of denial -- I mean, just because you can't "prove" institutional racism doesn't mean it doesn't exist -- you just need to look harder.

I think it is based partly on her race, in that Jessica Lynch was a pretty, blonde, blue-eyed "all-American" girl who got "ravaged" by Iraq. She epitomizes everything the American military wants us to believe about the war. How is that fair?

[SunWuKong]

I dunno... Wise's dismissal of it as not a race-based inconsistency smacks a bit of denial -- I mean, just because you can't "prove" institutional racism doesn't mean it doesn't exist -- you just need to look harder.

I think it is based partly on her race, in that Jessica Lynch was a pretty, blonde, blue-eyed "all-American" girl who got "ravaged" by Iraq. She epitomizes everything the American military wants us to believe about the war. How is that fair?

yeah i agree. i don't like how he dismissed racism so easily.

[SunWuKong]

here's a better article

http://www.sacobserver.com/news/063003/shoshana_johnson.shtml

i thought this was interesting:
Three women soldiers were part of that ill-fated unit, Army Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, Pfc. Jessica Lynch and Johnson. Reportedly, Piestewa died from injuries she sustained when the vehicle she was driving crashed during the ambush. Piestewa was the first Native American woman ever killed in combat. Last month, Native Americans successfully lobbied to have a mountain in Arizona named Piestewa Peak, although many Arizonians insist on retaining the old, racially offensive name, "Squaw Mountain," and the federal registry has yet to recognize the change.

so of the three women from that unit, only the blond-haired white girl has been getting the media attention.

[kimpossible]

I'd say media attention aimed at the soldiers' [the women] families was telling too. I think I remember seeing Johnson's and Piestawa's families interviewed about once in contrast with Lynch's family many times.

[ellsworth81]

american sweetheart jessica lynch will be on tv tonight doing an interview. cue the waterworks.

[yoMAMA]

did anyone see the elizabeth smart story last night?

all i can say is, man those cops are dumb! :D

[mr. x]

did anyone see the elizabeth smart story last night?

all i can say is, man those cops are dumb! :D

hows that? i didnt watch

my local paper gave Saving JL one star (outta four). looked pretty bad anyway

[Bhodi_Li]

american sweetheart jessica lynch will be on tv tonight doing an interview. cue the waterworks.
*cocks rifle*

[pfc beansprout]

~on the note regarding 'lynch merely was caught, saved, given awards, etc...' they makin her out to be big time hero...

i agree, when i was in basic, we had map reading classes and what not; the drill sgt's made sure to use the gulf war as an example; "u don't want to make a wrong turn and get caught as a pow; those 'heros who were imprisoned (the first gulf war) were idiots who couldn't read a map!"

true

[mr. x]

Man talk about twisted to the Nth degree (yes i am talking ebonics now)

Flynt Says He Won't Use Nude Lynch Photos

NEW YORK - Pornographer Larry Flynt says he bought nude photos of Pfc. Jessica Lynch to publish in Hustler magazine, but changed his mind because she's a "good kid" who became "a pawn for the government."


Flynt told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he bought the photos last month from the men who purportedly participated in the amateur shoot with the Army supply clerk. The soldiers "wanted to let it be known that she's not all apple pie," Flynt said.


"My first intention was to publish them, but I don't think it was the best, positive move I could make," Flynt said in a telephone interview. "She's very much a pawn for the government. They force-fed us a Joan of Arc."


In an interview with the AP on Tuesday, Lynch declined to comment on any aspect of the matter, including whether such photos exist.


Her attorney, Stephen Goodwin, said in a statement: "It's incredulous that anyone would think it appropriate in any way to attempt to publish unauthorized photos of Jessica — photos taken before she was deployed to Iraq (news - web sites) and before her capture and rescue."


The interview with Lynch was scheduled to publicize her biography, "I Am a Soldier, Too: The Jessica Lynch Story," which was released Tuesday. It covers the days between March 23, when her 507th Maintenance Company convoy was ambushed in Nasiriyah, and April 1, when she was evacuated from a hospital by U.S. commandos.


After her rescue, the young soldier from Palestine, W.Va., was celebrated as a hero prisoner of war.


Goodwin also said Lynch had never claimed to be a hero, saving that description for her rescuers.


"She is and will remain — not a Joan of Arc, not a hero — but a young woman honestly and openly dealing with the high price she has paid for proud service to her country," he said.


Flynt said the photographs appeared to be taken in an Army barracks, and showed Lynch topless and fully nude, frolicking with the soldiers.


He would not say what he paid for the photographs, which he said he'd lock in a vault.


"Some things are more important than money," he said. "You gotta do the right thing."


Flynt has been paralyzed from the waist down since an assassination attempt in 1978. His magazine won a landmark Supreme Court decision in 1988 that held that even pornographic spoofs enjoy First Amendment protection.

[nonamerasian]

The "right thing" would have been to send them to Lynch or simply destroy the photos and not speak to the media.

[mr. x]

The "right thing" would have been to send them to Lynch or simply destroy the photos and not speak to the media.

what im wondering is, are these pics from when she was young and stupid? or are they like pictures of when the iraqis were examining her on the table cuz the latter would be fucked up to the max

[VV o n g B a]

The "right thing" would have been to send them to Lynch or simply destroy the photos and not speak to the media.
yup. he's thinking of his bottom line. a lot of ppl would prolly boycott hustler if he published the photos. he prolly bought them thinking he was gonna publish it but thought better of it. but since he bought it, he wanted some publicity for them. it gives hustler some credibility... makes u wonder what else he's got stored in his vault that isn't being published. its all about the benjamins, nothin about the "right thing."

[ellsworth81]

Man talk about twisted to the Nth degree (yes i am talking ebonics now)

i've never heard any thug talk like that. :blink:

[Faithless]

?!?!

rape is rape man

That it is.

Just wondering if anyone gets off on that shit. There are folks like that.

[mr. x]

That it is.

Just wondering if anyone gets off on that shit. There are folks like that.

yeah well there are people who get off on children, what can we do? make sure no kid is ever photographed (clothed or not) ever again?

[blkazngirl]

I'm sick to death of hearing about Jessica. Like she was the only one that got hurt. Know bodies saying anything about the other people, the only woman. They are making a big deal out of this because she's White. Jessica is being well taken care by the government. So, she doen't need the money to pay for medical expenses.

Fine, if you want to make a movie or write a book. Write about everybody that was in that ambush with her. She's no better than any of the thousands that have lost their lives.

[Faithless]

Jessica Lynch to christen cruise ship (http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2004/02/23/daily27.html)
Former Army Pvt. Jessica Lynch will officially name the Carnival Miracle during a dockside ceremony at 2 p.m. Friday at the JAXPORT Cruise Terminal. Lynch will break the traditional bottle of champagne across the ship's bow.
...

[Danny]

damn, in my home town no less... sad.... well hopefully her 15 minutes can get stretched a little more and she can capitalize on it monetarily....