Another Thanksgiving

[Faithless]

Going through school all over again with my kid. She is a second grader learning about the Squanto famous Indian that helped the Pilgrims make it in the new world.

BUT! But, will she learn the real story about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squanto

and

http://nativeamericans.com/Squanto.htm

His life wasn't easy. He was kidnapped, brought to Europe, then escaped to return to this country where he discovered his fellow tribespeople had been wiped-out by a plague.

Sure he took care of the Pilgrims. What the hell else could he do? But then talk about your "sellouts".

He hung-out with the Pilgrims and would scare the shit out of the other indians, spreading stories about the white men.

Puh!

[John0101]

We shouldn't scare 2nd graders about the many evil things that happened in history. They already have enough problems.

[Faithless]

Yeah, but we shouldn't lie to them either.

That's what history is, it seems, in elementary schools -- a watering down job.

It's only when you get into high school, maybe, then college do you learn about how our country came to be, etc.

But it seems that we like to perpetuate the lies surrounding Plymouth Rock.

[Emperor_Mike]

Perhaps the reality behind such historical figures ought to be revealed when children are old enough to appreciate it. I wouldn't want my kids to hear about Squanto's village being wiped out by small pox in elementary school. Besides, it's not really lying. Teachers have simply taken out the unpleasant parts, that's all.

[Faithless]

That's why I'm thinking that we need to reevaluate the history and traditions we teach in areas like this.

Thanksgiving may have started informally with the Pilgrims, but it wasn't declared a federal holiday until years later. And its declaration was really for other purposes.

By the way, I talked to my kid's teacher and she says that they will be teaching some of the realities of Squanto.

But I also think upon the stuff I learned in elementary school and realize, "I was taught a lot of bullshit about Plymouth Rock too."

It's kind of like Santa, when do we get real?

[applehead]

omg. dude.
she's only in second grade.
you should home school her, then.

[Chester]

omg. dude.
she's only in second grade.
you should home school her, then.

Yeah, seriously. It would put her on the fast-track to spelling bee championships.

[Faithless]

omg. dude.
she's only in second grade.
you should home school her, then.

There are two ways a school system can go about this --
* Don't lie about history.
* Point-out somethiing else about Thanksgiving.

[kimpossible]

Can't you let her enjoy the innocence of her youth during the holidays before you unveil how fucking evil the world really is? I don't think kids are given enough time to be kids and slowly learn about the world in the mega-information age. You don't seem like the kind of parent that will let her be lead astray by mainstream history books forever. Wait until maybe 10 or so? Right now I imagine all she can know about Thanksgiving activities is making hand-turkeys with construction paper and glue.

But hey, it's your family not mine.

[applehead]

There are two ways a school system can go about this --
* Don't lie about history.
* Point-out somethiing else about Thanksgiving.


home schooling!!!!!

[tommyhtown]

There is no Santa Claus

[Faithless]

Can't you let her enjoy the innocence of her youth during the holidays before you unveil how fucking evil the world really is? I don't think kids are given enough time to be kids and slowly learn about the world in the mega-information age. You don't seem like the kind of parent that will let her be lead astray by mainstream history books forever. Wait until maybe 10 or so? Right now I imagine all she can know about Thanksgiving activities is making hand-turkeys with construction paper and glue.

But hey, it's your family not mine.

She is already apart of the mega information by the mear fact that we watch a lot of news at home (she watches Cartoon Network, too). She sees the stories about people doing unspeakable things to each other.

And just the other day, we were watching some entertainment news show when an "Amber" alert flashed across the screen, telling folks of a possible abduction of a 14 year old girl.

She gets a heck of a lot out of being a kid in school and at home.

I can't wait to see what they teach her generation about how the railroads were built with the Chinamen. :(

[kimpossible]

She is already apart of the mega information by the mear fact that we watch a lot of news at home (she watches Cartoon Network, too). She sees the stories about people doing unspeakable things to each other.

And just the other day, we were watching some entertainment news show when an "Amber" alert flashed across the screen, telling folks of a possible abduction of a 14 year old girl.


Which is why I said that kids don't get enough time to be kids. I'm not sure why you're counting on the U.S. public school system to show kids 'the truth' of the world. I think all you can really expect is for school to give them structure, hopefully a bit of diversity and strengthen tolerance, and lastly teach them abcs and math. Throw some Zinn and other books at her around 11/12 or so; my best teacher was always my mother. Public school system is only one way of gaining knowledge. It's good for some things, not good for everything.

[kasia]

By the way, I talked to my kid's teacher and she says that they will be teaching some of the realities of Squanto.

good move. i'm all for parents getting involved in their kid's education. maybe if enough of us do that, they'll start teaching about the chinese exclusion act, japanese internment, and so on. why else should kids be forced to wait until college to learn about that stuff - that's why asa kids get so resentful.

[>:^|]

Yeah, but we shouldn't lie to them either.

That's what history is, it seems, in elementary schools -- a watering down job.

It's only when you get into high school, maybe, then college do you learn about how our country came to be, etc.

But it seems that we like to perpetuate the lies surrounding Plymouth Rock.

I really disagree with the way much of history is taught. In the case with First Nations people (and slaves), it's as if we're teaching they were happy to be subjugated. And that Whites had the right to do so.

High school never taught me the truth either. The internment of Japanese Americans wasn't even mentioned. When somebody asked about it in high school, our history teacher said it "couldn't compare" to the European concentration camps and then refused to discuss it any further. And even in some recent works, I find that writers refer to the internment of the Japanese.

Heck, college didn't even tell me the truth. Of course, when I meet adults who weren't even aware of many historical facts, I don't know why I should be surprised that college professors aren't.

A recent column by a Tribune columnist referred to the interment of the Japanese. :eek:

CM--I'm glad you talked with your child's teacher.

[kimpossible]

I know this is going to open a big ol' can of worms but here goes.

I think it's an injustice to First Nations peoples to change a couple of facts and figures in a white people's linear and confined view of textbook history and consider ourselves enlightened for doing it and/or patting ourselves on the back for a job well done.

It's not just about 'truth' as we see it, it's about who we're giving credence to as the source of truth and our entire way of learning. I hate the idea of giving the US public school system sole credit and responsibility for handing out historical truth; I think by teaching kids that it is the main source of historical accuracy it also hurts their potential to critically assess cross cultural interaction, and 'history', as it has occured.

To really change our learning and interaction in relation to how we understand our histories together, we'd have to open ourselves not to just what we feel are more accurate facts, but a whole new way of thinking that is not locked into a finite chunk of linear history. It is interlocking series of phenomena that make up what we typically think of as history. What are peoples did in the past, how are peoples interact now. It's not just some past raw deal that natives got, they're being dicked around today and it's all intertwined with the everyday things we do.

I'm all for changing our idea of history here in America. I'm for parent involvement and glad someone stood up for what he thought was wrong. I'm not convinced that this would help in the long run; rather I would advocate alternative sources of learning to teach kids that the government sanctioned learning and history is not only NOT the only source, but probably not even a good source.

[shy]

There are two ways a school system can go about this --
* Don't lie about history.
* Point-out somethiing else about Thanksgiving.

i agree with you... and it's good that you talked to the teacher.

i was starting to get the idea that you were one of those parents that sit around complaining about the school system and not doing anything about it yourself. but you aren't. that's cool.

i don't know what it's like in the states, but here in canada, i'm starting to see this trend where the system won't even allow the teachers to be effective teachers. and the parents.... instead of trying to help, they tend to just point fingers and put blame on the teachers. or they whine about everything to make the system put tougher restrictions on the kid's learning environment.

parents can sometimes be guilty of expecting the school to parent their child.

the way i see... what's so wrong about trying to get envolved in a child's education? isn't that more effective???

[Faithless]

Which is why I said that kids don't get enough time to be kids. I'm not sure why you're counting on the U.S. public school system to show kids 'the truth' of the world. I think all you can really expect is for school to give them structure, hopefully a bit of diversity and strengthen tolerance, and lastly teach them abcs and math. Throw some Zinn and other books at her around 11/12 or so; my best teacher was always my mother. Public school system is only one way of gaining knowledge. It's good for some things, not good for everything.

I think I'm counting on the US public school system to teach the truth. because we have probably been tought enough of the lies.

When I reflect on my elementary school education, I can recall the Pilgrims stuff. Later, I learned everything was not peachy-keen and I thought, "why did I teach us that horseshit in elementary school?"

We wore paper cutouts of Pilgram hats and Indian headbands. And we reenacted the "first Thanksgiving". We did everything nicity-nice except exchange peace pipes.

[Faithless]

I really disagree with the way much of history is taught. In the case with First Nations people (and slaves), it's as if we're teaching they were happy to be subjugated. And that Whites had the right to do so.

High school never taught me the truth either. The internment of Japanese Americans wasn't even mentioned. When somebody asked about it in high school, our history teacher said it "couldn't compare" to the European concentration camps and then refused to discuss it any further. And even in some recent works, I find that writers refer to the internment of the Japanese.

Heck, college didn't even tell me the truth. Of course, when I meet adults who weren't even aware of many historical facts, I don't know why I should be surprised that college professors aren't.

A recent column by a Tribune columnist referred to the interment of the Japanese. :eek:

CM--I'm glad you talked with your child's teacher.

Come to think of it, I don't think we were tought much about internment either in high school.

(Where, where, where did I read "Return to Manzanar?")

But we sure as heck covered the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and other things that made America a super power.

Now, we know that what made us a superpower were the strong backs of others.

[Faithless]

the way i see... what's so wrong about trying to get envolved in a child's education? isn't that more effective???

Yup. And when you have your kid, consider volunteering in his/her classes.

Just resist the temptation to say, "wait, your teaching Chinese Exclusion Act all fucking wrong!"

[shy]

Yup. And when you have your kid, consider volunteering in his/her classes.

Just resist the temptation to say, "wait, your teaching Chinese Exclusion Act all fucking wrong!"

lol! i'll keep that in mind. :)

[Faithless]

Today I visited the school's "office". What did I see on the wall -- a poster proclaiming: "Thank you Squanto."

I thought to myself -- kind of a kin to whites wishing Uncle Tom a round of thanks. :(

[golden_buns]

Why make her life bitter so soon. Let her enjoy while she can, she'll eventually find out later on when she's grown and ready to deal with the real world

[>:^|]

I was pleased to read that a principal in Skokie, IL, made a difficult decision to discontinue "Indian" costumes at his school.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0311220160nov22,1,2641863.story?coll=chi-news-hed

He had stated that initially he thought the complaint was without merit, but to his credit he contacted two American Indian groups for more information before making his decision.

However, the "letters to the editor" in response to this article were somewhat alarming. When I hear "political correctness" come out of somebody, I'm know I'm pretty much guaranteed to hear an ignorant opinion. :mad:

[Faithless]

Caught a bit of a Thanksgiving night interview on KGO radio with a member of the American Indian Movement (http://www.aimovement.org/) .

Tried to get on the air with the host, but they ran out of time. I was burning to ask how the Squanto story is taken by this group. I sent an email instead.

[Irezumi Kiss]

Interesting links, Chotto.

I favor myself an aficionado of Native American mythology and tales, but the Squanto thing was totally unbeknownst to me.

My third eye thanks you...

[Faithless]

excerpts from "Lies My Teacher Told Me" (http://sophiagroup.org/lithistory.html) -- a book recommended by >:^|

The book appears to be used in this school system in Illinois (http://www.curie.cps.k12.il.us/Web%20Based%20Instruction/US%20History/topicnotes/1-3.htm)