"Sellout"

[Ogumo]

Is it only me or is this word being over used? It is like you have people calling each other sellout over the slightest thing. What do you people do when you meet a "sellout"? Do you call them "sellout" to their face? Black people and asian people seem to be the ones that over use this word. On the asian forums you see people constantly talking about "sellouts". I have been to a black forum before and on that they were going back and fourth calling each other sellout. I think people should really look at the person and then decide that they are a "sellout". Only because someone has a non asian s.o. does not mean they are a sellout. If some one disagrees with your opinion it does not mean they are a sellout. People shouldnt really think about why they think another person is a sellout before they make the judgement. This thing with the sellouts has become ridiculous...

[nonamerasian]

How often is the term said by Asians off of the Internet?

I don't hear "sellout" used by Blacks off of the Internet.

I don't think I've ever heard the term used by Blacks or Asians in person (other euphemisms, though), but on the Internet, the term is way over used to the point of hilarity, particularly on ethnic-specific forums.

I don't quite get the online/offline disparity.

[SunWuKong]

agreed that it's used too loosely. there are actions which are ethically questionable, there are actions which brings shame on your ethnicity or race, then there are actions that go against what is considered the general progress of your racial/ethnic community. i don't think i can live with the first two, but as far as the third is concerned - give me the money instead.

i know that sounds bad considering that i'm an admin here on this site, but that's just my personal attitude, and it shouldn't represent YW in this case.

[kitty]

How often is the term said by Asians off of the Internet?

I don't hear "sellout" used by Blacks off of the Internet.

I don't think I've ever heard the term used by Blacks or Asians in person (other euphemisms, though), but on the Internet, the term is way over used to the point of hilarity, particularly on ethnic-specific forums.

I don't quite get the online/offline disparity.

that's funny, I haven't really noticed a disparity -- it is used fairly frequently around here...

I think some people use it too loosely but there are many instances where using the term "sellout" is applicable.

[Ogumo]

How often is the term said by Asians off of the Internet?

I don't hear "sellout" used by Blacks off of the Internet.

I don't think I've ever heard the term used by Blacks or Asians in person (other euphemisms, though), but on the Internet, the term is way over used to the point of hilarity, particularly on ethnic-specific forums.

I don't quite get the online/offline disparity.


What? How dare you question my post sellout!

Actually I have heard it use frequently offline as well. I don't care if you call the person a sellout and they actually are a sellout. Fine. That is acceptable. But what annoys me is more than half of the time the person isnt a sellout. He is or she is just doing something or saying something that someone else disagrees with or just does not like. I agree with you about the term being used online to the death. Every three threads I read on most forums has something to do with a sellout and most times...the person is not even a sellout. Go to model minority. They are good for the sellout threads. I do hear black people use it more offline than online. But they seem to critisize each other more...that is something I have noticed. I am sure it isnt true in all case.

[Ogumo]

Infact I will give you a example of something.

1: Hey Im going to the store over there. I will be right back

2: Hey why dont you go to the store down the street?

1: Why?

2: Let the asian store owner make some money.

1: But the other one is closer.

2: *speaks lowly after the other person walks away* Fucking sellout...

I heard something like this awhile ago when I was waiting for a bus. I dont know what relation ship these two people had or if the "sellout" was really a sellout or not. But from what I saw he wasnt a sellout because he hated being asian he was a sellout because the other person disagreed. You see? This was only a example.

[nonamerasian]

Really?

I haven’t heard it offline, yet, but, there haven’t been a lack of other euphemisms used around me meaning just about the same thing.

It may just be my particular area, although on a Black site I’ve gone to, about two people claiming to live around my area (although I question that) made use of the term a lot.

I don’t know.

(BTW, I’m going to have to add you to my list as the hundredth person to call me a sellout online ;) )

[kboy75]

people say shit w/o thinking and not knowing what the fuck they are talking about.

[TB4000]

The movie Undercover Brother captured that perfectly.

"So anytime a black man has proper grammar, dates a white chick, and has a good job, he's a sellout?"

Dave Chappelle remarks, "That's right, that's right....awww, that ain't right."

[kitty]

Infact I will give you a example of something.

1: Hey Im going to the store over there. I will be right back

2: Hey why dont you go to the store down the street?

1: Why?

2: Let the asian store owner make some money.

1: But the other one is closer.

2: *speaks lowly after the other person walks away* Fucking sellout...

I heard something like this awhile ago when I was waiting for a bus. I dont know what relation ship these two people had or if the "sellout" was really a sellout or not. But from what I saw he wasnt a sellout because he hated being asian he was a sellout because the other person disagreed. You see? This was only a example.

that's really sad.. the thing is though, how can you say "that person definitely ISN'T a sellout?" culture is such a fluid, non-defined thing that there's isn't a stable definition of what a cultural sellout is. I mean, you may think what defines a sellout is someone who hates their ethnic identity, but maybe your friend defines a sellout as someone who hates their ethnic identity enough to not walk the few extra feet to the grocery store...

I guess the question really is, how do you define sellout and how do you make it a well-established definition?

[kimpossible]

The movie Undercover Brother captured that perfectly.

"So anytime a black man has proper grammar, dates a white chick, and has a good job, he's a sellout?"

Dave Chappelle remarks, "That's right, that's right....awww, that ain't right."

I love that movie! Hot sauce in a watch to combat the mayo!

[Ogumo]

that's really sad.. the thing is though, how can you say "that person definitely ISN'T a sellout?" culture is such a fluid, non-defined thing that there's isn't a stable definition of what a cultural sellout is. I mean, you may think what defines a sellout is someone who hates their ethnic identity, but maybe your friend defines a sellout as someone who hates their ethnic identity enough to not walk the few extra feet to the grocery store...

I guess the question really is, how do you define sellout and how do you make it a well-established definition?


Ok I see what you mean when you say that it depends on what you think makes a sellout a sellout. I think many will agree that usually a sellout is someone that simply hates the race he or she is in. Or they do not want to accept it. But do honestly think that someone deserved to be called a sellout over a walk to the store? I cant say for sure that person wasnt a sellout from that one time. That just blew me away when I saw that. It was ridiculous. But I do agree with you when you say that it is about how you personally define a sellout. But it should be reasonable definition. Otherwise we will be just like the americans when they first found this country. Do you remember how they would just randomly walk up to somebody and say "your a demon" and then tie the poor bastard to the tree and burn him to death. That is a extreme comparison but I think you realize what I am trying to say.

P.S. I s that you in the avatar??

[kitty]

Ok I see what you mean when you say that it depends on what you think makes a sellout a sellout. I think many will agree that usually a sellout is someone that simply hates the race he or she is in. Or they do not want to accept it. But do honestly think that someone deserved to be called a sellout over a walk to the store? I cant say for sure that person wasnt a sellout from that one time. That just blew me away when I saw that. It was ridiculous. But I do agree with you when you say that it is about how you personally define a sellout. But it should be reasonable definition. Otherwise we will be just like the americans when they first found this country. Do you remember how they would just randomly walk up to somebody and say "your a demon" and then tie the poor bastard to the tree and burn him to death. That is a extreme comparison but I think you realize what I am trying to say.


no, I personally don't think the person was a sellout for walking into the store closer. That was stupid, and I think people like to throw it around *because* it's such a fluid definition that you can't really say "no, I'm not!! I don't fit the definition!!" I can think of a few sellouts though... my definition is someone who hates or ignores their culture, even sacrificing the pride of their ethnic heritage for personal gain. For example, lucy liu :)


P.S. I s that you in the avatar??
yep. i'm stuck in the library scanning stuff all day so i thought i'd finally take the time and put a picture of me up, instead of anime catgirls. that's from my id card. no makeup and flash photography, baby!!!

[Ogumo]

no, I personally don't think the person was a sellout for walking into the store closer. That was stupid, and I think people like to throw it around *because* it's such a fluid definition that you can't really say "no, I'm not!! I don't fit the definition!!" I can think of a few sellouts though... my definition is someone who hates or ignores their culture, even sacrificing the pride of their ethnic heritage for personal gain. For example, lucy liu :)


yep. i'm stuck in the library scanning stuff all day so i thought i'd finally take the time and put a picture of me up, instead of anime catgirls. that's from my id card. no makeup and flash photography, baby!!!


Alright I agree with your definition of a sellout as well. Infact I should have put that up when I described a sellout. I got another post on MM that explained why this may happen so much and it made alot of sense. It said that these people find anyone that disagrees with their ideas are usually extremists. When disagree with anything or do something they do not approve of you have become a sellout to them. It makes sense. But I wonder how many of these people are extremeists and how many are just damn idiots.

[TB4000]

Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but nice pic, kittygirl.;)

[SunWuKong]

that's from my id card. no makeup and flash photography, baby!!!

impressive. most impressive.

[kitty]

thanks guys :) :heart:

[TB4000]

thanks guys :) :heart:


That's why we're here, girl...shameless flirtation.

[Irezumi Kiss]

Can anybody ever be a sellIN?

[Ogumo]

Can anybody ever be a sellIN?


Yes. I suppose that a sellout would be a also a sellin. Because he is selling into another culture while abandoning his own??

[nonamerasian]

But culture is organic, alive and growing/changing, and not always constant.

Just because a person shares another's phenotype, ancestry, or place of birth doesn't always mean they are going to act or believe the same.

A person of whatever descent raised in an area without people of a similar background won't always have the same culture as a person of similar descent raised in an area predominately of a similar background, and those two won't always have the same culture of those of the home country of their ancestors.

Why should one be considered a sell-out to the other, which is something I've witnessed on the Internet?

Just because person A doesn't act the same as person B doesn't mean person A is running away from their culture. They may not have been exposed to person B's culture in the first place.

For me, that is understandable. More understandable than person A trying to act like person B just because they are afraid of acting they way they truely are in fear of being labelled a sell-out (something I've also witnessed).

[kimpossible]

The world itself is terribly overused but I think the definition is more like a person who buys into social hierarchy and places such importance on it to the point that they are willing to 'sell out' their minority status and others of their shared status (race, gender, etc.) in order to gain acceptance, either into or by, the majority.

That's why I get the Undercover Brother references a couple of the guys have made. It was basically a 70s blaxploitation version of Austin Powers but Eddie Griffin's character goes 'undercover' as a sellout to infiltrate The Man's organization. Cute movie, with what I think might have been an homage to Hollywood Shuffle due to Robert Townsend's cameo in the flashback scene.

Anyhow, in Asian American terms, sellout is usually directed at an Asian woman who disdains Asian men in favor of white men often with the idea that they are somehow moving up on the social ladder by doing so. The heart of the matter isn't someone who does not register highly enough on the Asian litmus test but an Asian who turns their back on Asian culture, or other Asians, to be an honorary white person. Obviously, these type of people are few so the usage of sellout has been commandeered by some internet folk to use as a quick and dirty way to hamstring or pigeonhole.

[Ogumo]

But culture is organic, alive and growing/changing, and not always constant.

Just because a person shares another's phenotype, ancestry, or place of birth doesn't always mean they are going to act or believe the same.

A person of whatever descent raised in an area without people of a similar background won't always have the same culture as a person of similar descent raised in an area predominately of a similar background, and those two won't always have the same culture of those of the home country of their ancestors.

Why should one be considered a sell-out to the other, which is something I've witnessed on the Internet?

Just because person A doesn't act the same as person B doesn't mean person A is running away from their culture. They may not have been exposed to person B's culture in the first place.

For me, that is understandable. More understandable than person A trying to act like person B just because they are afraid of acting they way they truely are in fear of being labelled a sell-out (something I've also witnessed).

"A person of whatever descent raised in an area without people of a similar background won't always have the same culture as a person of similar descent raised in an area predominately of a similar background, and those two won't always have the same culture of those of the home country of their ancestors."

Someone that was not raised around there own group should not be classified for being a sellout. I agree with that. That is a very different situation from another that just does not like there race and was raised around it. Even so they should at least have respect for members of their race. Because they were raised in a different enviornment should not be a excuse for having NO respect for your group.

"Just because person A doesn't act the same as person B doesn't mean person A is running away from their culture. They may not have been exposed to person B's culture in the first place."

I agree.

[Ogumo]

The heart of the matter isn't someone who does not register highly enough on the Asian litmus test but an Asian who turns their back on Asian culture, other Asians, to be an honorary white person. Obviously, these type of people are few so the usage of sellout has been commandeered by some internet folk to use as a quick and dirty way to hamstring or pigeonhole.

Well... you explained it better than me. :p

[kimpossible]

I just had the weirdest experience.

Whilst strapped down in the dentist chair for my bi-annual checkup, one of the dental assistants proceeded to let me know that her husband was white (she's Mexican) and she wasn't prejudiced or anything but she doesn't like to go to this one part of town because of all the black people and crime. Now, I used to live in this part of town... it is economically depressed and it is a bit of a shithole but it's not THAT bad. I told her it was mainly the younger thug types that are the problem and it's not like they rule the streets like friggin Rio or something. There are some places I sure wouldn't want to go to but then again, most decent ppl don't. I could say the same for the area I live in now: it's gentrified and 'whiter' but it's full of white trash tweakers just a few miles down the road. I mean, if she wants to talk about asshole gang members we could always talk about the Mexican ones around here or the SE Asian ones on the eastside.

Did I meet a white asskisser? Sellout? She made me feel weird.

[nonamerasian]

I don't think she is necessarily a sellout or an ass-kisser, but that she felt the need to point out that her husband is White may suggest different.

[Ogumo]

I don't know what to think of that one. But I don't think she was a sellout or asskisser from that post. But you were the one that met her...

[d-boy]

she sounds like an asskisser....

if you really want to meet some self-hating Asians, you should check out the law school scene.... talk about whitewashed. hopefully, it's just my school....

[mr. x]

she sounds like an asskisser....

if you really want to meet some self-hating Asians, you should check out the law school scene.... talk about whitewashed. hopefully, it's just my school....

do tell

[Chester]

Did I meet a white asskisser? Sellout? She made me feel weird.
I don't get it? Why would the admission of bourgeois-style aversion to "unsafe" areas make her an ethnic asskisser or sellout?

[kimpossible]

I really don't know. I haven't had that done to me before. I've met some Asian versions, this is the first non-Asian version.

This isn't going to translate well to a post but I felt like she was trying to make it into an Us vs. Them argument for agreement. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of it other than I felt really awkward by what she was saying to me.

[kimpossible]

I don't get it? Why would the admission of bourgeois-style aversion to "unsafe" areas make her an ethnic asskisser or sellout?

No, it was the sudden intro of how she's not prejudiced but all the black people in an area of town scared her. Then something about her husband being white. Since my appearance can easily interpreted as monoracial white, I wondered if somehow my 'whiteness' precipitated the weird insertion of "I'm not racist but those blacks..." I countered politely a few times because I had lived in the area she was talking about but then she kept going on about 'black people' and not simply unsafe areas. I was talking about unsafe areas, not her.

I'm not sure if it was an effort of white asskissing. I'm kind of offended at the idea that I would be the white ass kissed. I'd like to think she was just a little cuckoo but who knows. Maybe I gave out supremicist vibes or I just had never had the physical experience of Hispanic on black racism or it came at a time where I was totally off guard.

[Ogumo]

.

[Ogumo]

No, it was the sudden intro of how she's not prejudiced but all the black people in an area of town scared her. Then something about her husband being white. Since my appearance can easily interpreted as monoracial white, I wondered if somehow my 'whiteness' precipitated the weird insertion of "I'm not racist but those blacks..." I countered politely a few times because I had lived in the area she was talking about but then she kept going on about 'black people' and not simply unsafe areas. I was talking about unsafe areas, not her.

I'm not sure if it was an effort of white asskissing. I'm kind of offended at the idea that I would be the white ass kissed. I'd like to think she was just a little cuckoo but who knows. Maybe I gave out supremicist vibes or I just had never had the physical experience of Hispanic on black racism or it came at a time where I was totally off guard.

I forgot that you were a hapa for some unknown reason... but yes she may have been kissing your ass because she thought you were a full white person. Maybe she was looking for a pat on the back from you by talking about the blacks.

[Chester]

I'm not sure if it was an effort of white asskissing. I'm kind of offended at the idea that I would be the white ass kissed. I'd like to think she was just a little cuckoo but who knows. Maybe I gave out supremicist vibes or I just had never had the physical experience of Hispanic on black racism or it came at a time where I was totally off guard.
Why would she be "kissing white ass"?

I don't know if you could conclude anything concrete. Maybe she likes to chum up to whites by clowning on black people. Maybe she just has a problem with black people and doesn't have the tact to keep her trap shut. Maybe she doesn't have a real problem with black people but stupidly gives the impression that she does.

[kimpossible]

Why would she be "kissing white ass"?

I don't know if you could conclude anything concrete. Maybe she likes to chum up to whites by clowning on black people. Maybe she just has a problem with black people and doesn't have the tact to keep her trap shut. Maybe she doesn't have a real problem with black people but stupidly gives the impression that she does.


Right. The point is I don't know. It's an experience that's sticking with me though. But in an effort to explain why she would be kissing white ass, I think your explanation of 'chum up' closely fits my definition of 'kissing up'.

[Tao]

she probably thought that by telling you her disdain for blacks, you two can have something in common supposedly

[Bang]

I think what is one of the hottest things is? A hot asian girl, but thats not all. A hot white-washed[I] asian girl. that is hot.

[nonamerasian]

Ogumo,

Funny shit brah, you told me to stop constantly remind people there are Asian sellouts but yet, you start a thread on titled "Sellout".

Brah ... you are funny.

. . .But it's a thread discussing its over-usage, lol.

[Ogumo]

Ogumo,

Funny shit brah, you told me to stop constantly remind people there are Asian sellouts but yet, you start a thread on titled "Sellout".

Brah ... you are funny.

Brah this thread is about how the word is used far too much and for the incorrect reasons brah. Brah read the post. Ok brah?

[Ogumo]

I did read it. Ya need to read my post above yours. Incorrect reasons, I know when to use it "brah".

Fine what ever you say brah. Let us end this now brah.