racial slurs and being racist

[SunWuKong]

does it make someone a racist if s/he uses racial slurs? is there a difference between a person using it regularly and in a generalised manner to refer to an entire group of people, and a person using it in isolated cases to refer to certain individuals only? at what point does the use of racial slurs indicate that a person is a racist?

[TB4000]

My thinking is if they use it maliciously. I've known white guys that grew up in the shall we say, impoverished area where I did, and they got away with calling us "nigga" to no extent.

[nonamerasian]

While I don’t think all racists use racial epithets, I do assume that most people who use racial epithets are either racist of ignorant.

I almost always assume a person using a racist epithet is racist (Or ignorant), with the exception of the use of “nigger” amongst some Blacks, “honky” amongst some Whites (there are exceptions to both of those), and some other examples where epithets are used with either affection or with a particular meaning which isn’t racist in nature.

There have been exceptions to even those, however not included with those exceptions is if someone says, “I didn’t call ALL Mexicans beaners, I just called Pedro a beaner.”

I’ve encountered that type of excuse, but it doesn’t fly with me. I will assume that person to be either racist or too stupid to know any better.

Are my guideline hypocritical? Perhaps so. It seems more so as I've typed this.

They are very dependent on the situation. Subjective.

[kitty]

call me an extremist, but i think that if you're using any racial epithet, whether you mean to be malicious or not, you are being racist, since the very definition of the term is someone who uses race to refer to another person. In our current society, it is taboo, of course, to do so.

I know there is an attempt by some communities to 'reclaim' certain racial epithets, but even in those cases, there is a distinction between those within the community using the slur and those without. Don't walk up to a homosexual person and say the word 'queer' because you don't think it's a slur -- make sure they are okay with your use of it, whether you are gay or straight, since some people will still take offense while others will consider it prideful.

Moreover, whether your intention is malcious or benign, I think you have to take into consideration the target's reaction to the word as more important than the word itself. Calling someone a 'nigga' to refer to them may seem alright to you, but for a person of colour, that might evoke associations to slavery and plantations.

PS - sorry if that sounded like a lecture.

[kimpossible]

My thinking is if they use it maliciously. I've known white guys that grew up in the shall we say, impoverished area where I did, and they got away with calling us "nigga" to no extent.

Was that valid only around ppl the white guys knew or everyone? I imagine it's a good way to get an extreme assbeating to say that to or around someone who doesn't know you.

[deez nuts]

depends on place, time and context.

[coagulated fat]

call me an extremist, but i think that if you're using any racial epithet, whether you mean to be malicious or not, you are being racist, since the very definition of the term is someone who uses race to refer to another person.
Wha? Last time I checked the definition of racism was either the school of thought that subscribes to the belief that one race is inherently better than another, or discrimination on the basis of race can be justified. I'm not keen on people calling "racist!" at everything. While racial epithets are probably not conducive to racial harmony, they are just outward expressions of what many other people too scared to use the epithets think inside. Racism today is so taboo that it's hidden or made more subtle than overt epithets, but whether the words are used or not the mentality is still there. The problem is not in the words but in the mindset. Words are just words. If I'm writing a paper or a poem or a creative essay on lynching, for example, I might choose to use the word "nigger" to illustrate a point. People can do that aloud, in their conversations, too.

[kitty]

words were used to oppress minorities for generations. who do you think invented the word 'nigger'? 'chink'? 'gook'?

edit: sorry, this post wasn't meant to sound snippy. i'm just grumpy today.

[coagulated fat]

The words themselves are not oppressive. It's the thought that races through a person's mind and compels them to call out "chink!" to you as you walk down the street that's harmful. Getting rid of the word will not get rid of the thinking, the stereotype, or the need to subjugate.

[Lingmui]

I think it indicates a person is a racist to the extent that they know it's racist, they know they shouldn't say it in that situation thusfar they are in fact a racist.

[kitty]

The words themselves are not oppressive. It's the thought that races through a person's mind and compels them to call out "chink!" to you as you walk down the street that's harmful. Getting rid of the word will not get rid of the thinking, the stereotype, or the need to subjugate.

no the words themselves aren't, but they've sorta been ascribed that maliciousness through the history of the terms.

For example, A&F thought the tee-shirts were a joke, but I consider them racist. Why? They don't even use the word "chink", nor were they made maliciously, and yet they make fun of a serious part of the racial oppression of Asian Americans in this country.

You can't use the word "nigger" without bringing up the contexts through which it racially oppressed others. So now, the six letters that make up that word are not racist, but their meaning (which is the real power of language) does.

[coagulated fat]

You can't use the word "nigger" without bringing up the contexts through which it racially oppressed others. So now, the six letters that make up that word are not racist, but their meaning (which is the real power of language) does.
Is it always bad to bring up these contexts? I don't know, we might be talking about separate things, but I'm talking about the word itself in any kind of usage.

[kitty]

Is it always bad to bring up these contexts? I don't know, we might be talking about separate things, but I'm talking about the word itself in any kind of usage.

I can't think of any way, personally, when you could casually use those words in a conversation and *positively* bring up racially oppressive history.

[>:^|]

I tend to agree with kittygirl in that intentionality is not a factor in determining whether a comment is racist. However, I think the difficulty in assigning the term "racist" to a person is that it suggests the sum of an identity. This is an identity that few people would willingly assume. I think it's fair to say that many of us hold prejudices about other groups. However, how many do you have to hold to be labelled a racist?

In my opinion, the use of racialized slurs is at least an indication of how entrenched racist thoughts are within the person and how little that person might have examined his or her thinking. John McCain is an example that comes to mind--his frequent use of the word "gook" and later defense of the term seemed to indicate that he had never even thought about its implications.

[SunWuKong]

In my opinion, the use of racialized slurs is at least an indication of how entrenched racist thoughts are within the person and how little that person might have examined his or her thinking. John McCain is an example that comes to mind--his frequent use of the word "gook" and later defense of the term seemed to indicate that he had never even thought about its implications.

seriously. that was such a weak defense and he was such an incredible dumb-ass for using that word while he was campaigning.

[ChinaLama]

I just saw this thread around the "don't have a chinaman's chance" thread, and I think that it's possible that sometimes people use racial slurs but don't realize they're racial slurs. Like there are people who say "Jap" as a short for Japanese, and people toss off "not a Chinaman's chance" without thinking twice, "wait a minute... did I just say Chinaman?" So I guess the question really should be-- if a person KNOWS he's using a racial slur, is he being racist?

To some extent, perhaps. But at the same time-- is someone who uses racial slurs always "functionally" racist, as in, would he actually discriminate against someone b/c of race? That's harder to say. I think, a person's rationality may overcome his racist tendencies, and of course, there are external pressures, too. No matter how much a person may personally hate Jews, if he said or did something against them, he may have hell to pay because Jewish Americans are a well-organized community that can readily defend themselves.

[blkazngirl]

A racist is somebody that will call a person a name, doesn't care the person is. Believes that they are better than everyone.

[kasia]

please stay on the topic. irrelevent posts have been deleted. if you wish to comment on another member's body, you can pm him/her directly. this is no guarantee that you won't get dissed.

[yangbahn50]

No, I don't think racists are people who only use derrogatory ethnic terms.

I think racists are also people who indirectly mistreat people of other ethnic groups.

For example, white people placing their feet on the back of my chair in class is racism. I may sound like I'm being anal....but that's one example of racism. Do I know for sure if the white boy placing his feet on the back of my chair is being racist to me because I'm Asian? No.

However, if I do see a trend, i.e. white people mainly placing their feet on Asian or other minority people's chair,...then I know they're being racist.

In fact today, I went to Kinkos (stinkos ) to make copies of some documents.
The employee at the counter was black. I printed out my paper and gave it to the black employee. Then a black customer behind me gives the black employee his paper. He was rung up before I was. Was this discrimination? Maybe...maybe not. But if I see a continual trend of this black employee pandering to black customers...then yeah...I wouldn't hesitate to call him a racist.

So my point is, there are other forms of racism besides racial slurs.

[himura-dono]

words were used to oppress minorities for generations. who do you think invented the word 'nigger'? 'chink'? 'gook'?

edit: sorry, this post wasn't meant to sound snippy. i'm just grumpy today.

interesting on how you slanted that to be one race who did start those :rolleyes:

[ChinaLama]

interesting on how you slanted that to be one race who did start those :rolleyes:

yeah you crack head.

[kasia]

No, I don't think racists are people who only use derrogatory ethnic terms.

I think racists are also people who indirectly mistreat people of other ethnic groups.

For example, white people placing their feet on the back of my chair in class is racism. I may sound like I'm being anal....but that's one example of racism. Do I know for sure if the white boy placing his feet on the back of my chair is being racist to me because I'm Asian? No.

However, if I do see a trend, i.e. white people mainly placing their feet on Asian or other minority people's chair,...then I know they're being racist.

In fact today, I went to Kinkos (stinkos ) to make copies of some documents.
The employee at the counter was black. I printed out my paper and gave it to the black employee. Then a black customer behind me gives the black employee his paper. He was rung up before I was. Was this discrimination? Maybe...maybe not. But if I see a continual trend of this black employee pandering to black customers...then yeah...I wouldn't hesitate to call him a racist.

So my point is, there are other forms of racism besides racial slurs.

without saying that i don't believe, i would ask that you explain why you concluded that your white classmate's placement of his feet on the back of your chair was a racist act. it certainly may be - but what are your reasons for drawing this conclusion?

as for kinkos - after giving it some thought - i would agree that giving people of your own ethnicity preferential treatment is a form of racial discrimination. would anyone disagree?

[himura-dono]

erg, i should've added in my previous post that what i mean is that if you're referring to white's as the majority, than why do most mainstream languages have derogatory words for other races and even sub-ethnicities? are you gonna tell me they got it from evil whitey?

- evil whitey strikes again -

[Faithless]

My thinking is if they use it maliciously. I've known white guys that grew up in the shall we say, impoverished area where I did, and they got away with calling us "nigga" to no extent.
"Nigga," Please: Two rival b-boys dance around the N-word (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2004-12-23/news/news.html)
BY JOE WATSON
feedback@newtimes.com

Eminem's down with his niggas. Puerto Ricans like J.Lo and Fat Joe, and even that Asian kid in the baggy jeans, they claim posses of niggas. Thanks in large part to the marketing of commercial hip-hop, what was arguably the most destructive word in the English language has (rightly or wrongly) morphed itself into a term of endearment -- for blacks, sure, but for whites, browns and beiges, too.

House One, a Mexico City-born Hispanic and the leader of the local hip-hop crew Furious Styles, believed Darryl Khalid was his nigga. Until Khalid, a black choreographer and founder of rival dance troupe FootKlan, took offense to House's use of the word outside a Scottsdale nightclub almost a year and a half ago.

Now, House no longer calls Khalid a nigga, much less his nigga. Rather, House says, Khalid's just an opportunistic troublemaker playing the race card.
...

Gets gossipy from there.

I still do a double-take when I hear/see whites and Asian (kids--hardly/never adults) call each othah nigga.

[deez nuts]

what about cracking racist jokes?

i personally find them extremely funny and have really good ones.

[Hiroshi2]

I still do a double-take when I hear/see whites and Asian (kids--hardly/never adults) call each othah nigga.






They do that?



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[deez nuts]

They do that?



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


i too am appalled.

[Hiroshi2]

You know what............I've actually never heard any non-black person use that word. Never. That's why it's weird to me.

[Faithless]

They do that?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You're shittin' me, right? Well, maybe not. :rolleyes:

I goto downtown Berkeley a lot, and walk past the Berkeley High kids during their lunch time (I guess it's their lunch time -- it could be cut time also). As almost all kids are in that area do --

They wear the defacto school uniform of oversized teeshirts and baggy jeans, as well as, $100 basketball shoes that look like they came-off some street person.
They cuss like shit (and like fuck, and a lot of other abrasive idolecticals).
They role off that variation of the n-word like they are all rappers or thugs. Apparently, "homie" is passe, I guess. :rolleyes:

[kimpossible]

^The white kids I see/hear doing it are more grunge/hippie and have dreads and piercings. They do it well within the confines of the 'whiter' parts of town. I'm originally from the East Coast and I NEVER heard or saw white kids doing it there.

[Faithless]

^ Grunge kids around here, I think, I generally n-word free.

White kids in the thugwear get that whole slang thing going and blurt out nagga like they 0wnZ the word -- even within mixed company.

It's a t[h]reat to the ears.

[Hiroshi2]

Damn that's some crazy shit................



I take back what I said about never hearing somebody saying the n-word who wasn't whtie. This one white kid who was probably 4 or 5 years older than me and used to hang aroudn the black kids in our neighborhood, they let him use it. And he called me that one day, and we got to fighting. I still can't believe they let him do that, cause I got a friend that's a so-called "wigger" and as cool as he is with the black people at our school, he never uses it and we wouldn't let him either. We go back, but if I'd whup his ass in a minute if he called me that.

[kimpossible]

We go back, but if I'd whup his ass in a minute if he called me that.

I should hope so.

[deez nuts]

a few of my black friends used to call me the n word when they talked to me. but, i told them to stop using the n word when referring to me cuz i ain't black. they seemed kinda insulted and asked me why?

[Faithless]

Ima tell you what -- it seems so inviting, at times, to blurt it out.

There's this one Wu-Tang Clan rap that I like -- "Shame on a Nigga", on their "greatest hits" CD (I also like that rock version) -- and I find myself rapping along while doing the laundry (in the garage).

And I got to be careful because I have a very influential two-year old who discovered the power of the word "fuck" ("fuckah" to be exact. He has been counciled in a brisk way on it's usage.). And I would be mortified if he started spouting off saying the n-word.

But I like to play my kids the music that I grew-up with/continue to like (to circumvent the influence of Shitney). But it gets daunting to play too much of Wu Tang or Das Efx or Brand Nubian within ear-shot of the little ones when they pick up so much so quickly.

[deez nuts]

Ima tell you what -- it seems so inviting, at times, to blurt it out.

There's this one Wu-Tang Clan rap that I like -- "Shame on a Nigga", on their "greatest hits" CD (I also like that rock version) -- and I find myself rapping along while doing the laundry (in the garage).

And I got to be careful because I have a very influential two-year old who discovered the power of the word "fuck" ("fuckah" to be exact. He has been counciled in a brisk way on it's usage.). And I would be mortified if he started spouting off saying the n-word.

But I like to play my kids the music that I grew-up with/continue to like (to circumvent the influence of Shitney). But it gets daunting to play too much of Wu Tang or Das Efx or Brand Nubian within ear-shot of the little ones when they pick up so much so quickly.


can't say that i have, sorry.

then again, i was never that into rap music.

[kimpossible]

And I got to be careful because I have a very influential two-year old who discovered the power of the word "fuck" ("fuckah" to be exact.

can you videorecord that and post it please?

[Faithless]

can you videorecord that and post it please?
It's too embarrasing, honestly.

I hope he doesn't say it at daycare. :frown:

A visualization, though: He's running around one day and his big sis scolds him and startles him. He broods then halls off and declares, "you ... you ... fuckah!" :eek:

It takes constant repetition to dictate that this word is not good for his intelligence.

But then you bring home a DVD with lots of action and inevitably someone saying "mugger fugger". (Martha Focker too.)

[BigLew]

Ever notice those white kids that call themselves nigga don't use the word when a black person is around?

[Chu Chi]

does it make someone a racist if s/he uses racial slurs? is there a difference between a person using it regularly and in a generalised manner to refer to an entire group of people, and a person using it in isolated cases to refer to certain individuals only? at what point does the use of racial slurs indicate that a person is a racist?


It depends on who the person using it is.

If an Asian calls another Asian a "gook" or "chink", thats not racism.

If a Black person calls another Black person a "nigger" or "porch monkey", thats not racism.

But if a White person calls an Asian a "chink" or a Black person a "nigger", it is racism.

Racism is mistreatment based on color.

In a system of "non color supremacy", (White supremacy), White people have a unique advantage.

CC

[Emperor_Mike]

...
And I got to be careful because I have a very influential two-year old who discovered the power of the word "fuck" ("fuckah" to be exact. He has been counciled in a brisk way on it's usage.). And I would be mortified if he started spouting off saying the n-word.
...

Hahaha! That's just precious. :biggrin:

I have a six year old cousin like that (i.e. naughty words a spoutin'.) She seems awfully proud of the fact that she can raise alarms with her growing vocabulary of dirty phrases. Kids these days. I'm going to raise mine in the countryside with cows, horses, and chickens.

[mr. x]

You know what............I've actually never heard any non-black person use that word. Never. That's why it's weird to me.
seriuos? you aint never lived in the bay area obviously, rich asian kids should not be n bombing IMO

Damn that's some crazy shit................



I take back what I said about never hearing somebody saying the n-word who wasn't whtie. This one white kid who was probably 4 or 5 years older than me and used to hang aroudn the black kids in our neighborhood, they let him use it. And he called me that one day, and we got to fighting. I still can't believe they let him do that, cause I got a friend that's a so-called "wigger" and as cool as he is with the black people at our school, he never uses it and we wouldn't let him either. We go back, but if I'd whup his ass in a minute if he called me that.
was the dude using it as a term of...endearment or was it like "shut up nigger (not nigga)"

[asvenus]

Ever notice those white kids that call themselves nigga don't use the word when a black person is around?

:rolleyes: i know...

[Balthus Dire]

I almost NEVER use racial slurs describing people unless they come at me with the same first. 2 wrongs don't make a right, yeah, but my life becomes a mirror to reflect the world's ugliness when these things happen. As long as it is done non-maliciously, I can put up with some stereotypical comedy every once and a while, but if the people dishing it out can't take it in return, then they shouldn't be mouthing off such divisive remarks!!

[RangerX]

My thinking is if they use it maliciously. I've known white guys that grew up in the shall we say, impoverished area where I did, and they got away with calling us "nigga" to no extent.

Ask the White guys if they are "N!ggers".

(make sure you pronounce that er at the end).

moment of truth...

See if they will even answer that question.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[Edward Williams]

does it make someone a racist if s/he uses racial slurs?
Nope.

is there a difference between a person using it regularly and in a generalised manner to refer to an entire group of people, and a person using it in isolated cases to refer to certain individuals only?[QUOTE]
Nope.

[QUOTE=SunWuKong] at what point does the use of racial slurs indicate that a person is a racist? It doesn't. People use all kinds of words all the time. A "racist" is a white person person that uses speech and/or action against people they say are not white (non-white). This results in the global system of white supremacy. In other words, racism is white supremacy...cause and effect, respectively.

Not all white people do this.

[achtungbaby]

Ask the White guys if they are "N!ggers".

(make sure you pronounce that er at the end).

moment of truth...

See if they will even answer that question.

-RangerX
RWSWJ
Do you despise such white traitors?

[RangerX]

Do you despise such white traitors?

What is a white traitor ?

and by "despise" do you mean mistreat ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[kimpossible]

and by "mistreat" do you mean despise?

what's your name?

who's your daddy?

is he rich like me?

has he taken any time to show you what you need to live?

[achtungbaby]

has he taken any time to show you what you need to live?
That's the next line??

[kimpossible]

That's the next line??

search me. i swiped it from a website. i think i mumble something else everytime i hear the song.